The Empowered Principal® Podcast Angela Kelly | Beyond the IEP: Building Stronger Parent-School Partnerships with Youness El Fehdi

Supporting students with disabilities requires more than following a plan. It requires trust, communication, and strong partnerships between families and schools.

In this episode, I talk with Youness El Fehdi, author and parent advocate, about his experience navigating the education system as the father of a child with autism. We discuss the importance of collaboration between parents, teachers, and school leaders, how to approach IEP conversations from a place of partnership rather than blame, and why parents bring valuable insight that can help educators better support their students.

Tune in this week to discover how building stronger parent-school partnerships can transform the way we support students with diverse needs. You’ll learn how to approach IEP conversations with more collaboration, recognize the value of the parent perspective, and create a school environment where families and educators work together toward shared goals.

The Empowered Principal® Collaborative is for aspiring and current school leaders who want to create exceptional impact and enjoy the school leadership experience. Join us today to become a member of the only certified life and leadership coaching program for school leaders in the country by clicking here.

What You’ll Learn From this Episode:

  • Why collaboration between families and schools is essential for supporting students with disabilities.
  • How the parent perspective can provide valuable insight into a student’s needs and experiences.
  • Why approaching challenging conversations with understanding is more effective than blame.
  • How consistent communication between parents, teachers, and school leaders can strengthen relationships.
  • The importance of flexibility when supporting neurodiverse students.
  • How educators can create more welcoming and inclusive experiences for families.
  • Why listening and partnership are key to creating better outcomes for students.

Listen to the Full Episode:

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Full Episode Transcript:

Angela Kelly: Hello, Empowered Principals. Welcome to episode 452. 

Welcome to The Empowered Principal® Podcast, a not-so-typical educational resource that will teach you how to gain control of your career and get emotionally fit to lead your school and your life with joy by refining your most powerful tool, your mind. Here’s your host, certified life coach Angela Kelly. 

Hello, Empowered Principals. Happy Tuesday and welcome to this episode of The Empowered Principal® Podcast. I have a guest for you today. We’re going to talk about a very interesting topic, a topic that’s relevant for both students, staff members, families, and school leaders. And I have Youness El Fehdi here today to talk with us about the IEP experience and what it feels like on the parental end to have conversations around 504s, IEPs, students with disabilities, and how to navigate those conversations in a way that is a win-win. 

I like to call it a win-win, where it’s the land of and, it’s a benefit for obviously the student, but also for teacher, for school leader, and for the parents. We want to keep in mind as we’re entering into this new school year, the experience of a family coming into our school and needing to navigate the experience of supporting their student in whatever learning capacities and supports that they need. So, Youness, welcome to the podcast.

Youness El Fehdi: Thank you, Angela, for inviting me.

Angela Kelly: Could you please tell the listeners a little bit more about you and your background and how you came to write a book on this very topic?

Youness El Fehdi: We had a boy. His name is Adam. And the first couple of years, the first two years, everything was normal. But about two-and-a-half-year-old, we started noticing that the eye contact is not there and the food, he was not eating a lot of food. I mean, he was eating just one type of food. We decided to go, you know, start asking questions, and the doctor back then told us you might want to check with a doctor for to diagnose he might have autism. 

So, we went over to the doctor and did the diagnosis. He was diagnosed with autism. Back then, we didn’t have any idea what is autism, what’s going on, how we deal with autism. So, it was a kind of an experience that made me think about seeing how difficult that experience was. That’s what inspired me to write the book.

So, after doing a lot of researches and going through a lot of experience, after learning by research and by experience, like learning the hard way, two years after the maybe, what was 2019, like two, three years after the diagnosis, after going through all those experiences, I decided to share my story with specifically the parents that’s going through the same experience that I went through. And they can benefit from it and save time instead of going the going through it the hard time. And sometimes you learn, sometimes you don’t. And everybody’s condition or circumstances is different. So, I decided to write that book to share my experience. So, we put Adam in therapy.

Angela Kelly: How old was he at this point?

Youness El Fehdi: We put him in therapy. He was like three years old.

Angela Kelly: Okay. So he was quite young.

Youness El Fehdi: Yeah, he was quite young. And that therapy is what saved Adam’s, you know, saved him. He started getting like eye contact, and they started experimenting with some food, and his behavior improved. And like my advice to all the parents out there with kids with autism is just get them to therapy as early as possible. The longer you wait, the more difficult will be for your kid to develop skills and match and match his kids with his age, his or her age. So, early intervention is very important for the kids. And then after that, here comes the school experience.

Angela Kelly: Yes.

Youness El Fehdi: So going to school, we enrolled Adam in school in kindergarten and the first day we started getting calls from the teacher. I told Adam to do this. He didn’t do this. I told him to go here. He didn’t do that.

Angela Kelly: How did that feel as a parent to receive those phone calls? Because he was just a kinder at that point, right? He was in kindergarten?

Youness El Fehdi: Yes.

Angela Kelly: Yes.

Youness El Fehdi: It feels that there is a lack of understanding of how to deal with kids, neurodiverse kids. And with that, I don’t blame that teacher, but it should be like some type of training or enough training for those teachers to understand how to deal with kids with autism or any other type of disability. That would have prevented that issue of calling the parents every day, like, “Hey, come get your son.”

On the parent’s side, this is the challenges. You know, we all have jobs. So you got jobs, you got to work, this and then that interruption, a daily interruption, cause a lot of problems.

Angela Kelly: Mmhmm. So how did you navigate that as a parent?

Youness El Fehdi: We asked for an IEP meeting because at that point we already had an IEP in place. So, we went for that IEP meeting and we discussed with the school, the school committee, and we talked about what’s the issue, what’s like, they said that Adam was having meltdowns. So, they showed me a video of him having a meltdown.

What I noticed in that video that, first of all, there were 30 kids around him, and when he was having that issue, the teacher was just saying, “Stop.” So, “What do you suggest we do in cases like this?” I said, “First of all, we got to isolate him when he’s having a meltdown because the more people around him, the worse he gets. That’s the first step. And then just give him time. Give him like about 15, 20 minutes by himself, and usually that meltdown goes away. It don’t stay forever.”

They noted that, so after that, it got a little better. What I noticed is just the training, because sometimes even you get a certified teacher, especially if they’re new to the job, they don’t have that real experience with disabled kids. So, there is something in the book, but they never went through it. So, for the teacher’s credit, I will tell parents, don’t be impatient at first because at first, their the teachers are still getting used to your kid because autism is a spectrum. Not everybody is the same.

So, it’s normal to have issues during that beginning phase. And then all you got to do as a parent is to give the teachers advice because you’re more qualified to advise a professional because you got the edge. You got that little edge, which is the real-life experience with your kid at first. So, with that specific teacher, throughout the day, throughout the month, it got better. She started understanding what triggers him, what appeases him, and it got better throughout the years.

Angela Kelly: Mmhmm. That’s wonderful. So, as frustrating as it may have been in the beginning for both you and your child and the teacher, because everyone was new. It was a new situation. The teacher wasn’t, was new to your child and your child was new to school. And so, there was a little bit of confusion there in the beginning, but it sounds like with patience, both the teacher, the patience of the parents, you guys were able to communicate and work together by calling an IEP meeting and saying, “Hey, let us inform you of what we know works.” And give it some time and patience. And they implemented that.

And all of a sudden, we start to see this collaboration between parent and school, parent and teachers and the IEP team, where with just a few conversations, you were able to come up with a plan and an approach for Adam that was more comfortable for him in the long run.

Youness El Fehdi: Yes. I think what causes all the friction between parents of disabled kids and teachers or school administrators is, is instead of collaborating, there’s the blame game. Like if the teacher call for your kid and you go over there with that attitude of like, “Oh, she’s incompetent. She doesn’t know her job.” This and that. 

And you just go there and you just start saying all that, that’s going to make the problem worse because with that attitude, the teacher shut down. So, it takes step by step, like to tell them how your kid operates in this life because you got the inside knowledge that they don’t know.

Angela Kelly: Yes. Yes.

Youness El Fehdi: And then after that, it’s get better. But when we go there with that attitude of like, “I demand this and that,” but you can demand all day long, and if you don’t give them a clear picture of how to deal with your kid, the problem’s just going to persist. And that’s my advice for the parent. You just communicate. I know it’s frustrating, and I’m saying it from experience because I was one of those parents that goes over there and…

Angela Kelly: Well, that’s all you knew.

Youness El Fehdi: So, I’m not saying that blaming those parents for that either, because they’re frustrated, they’re interrupted, they see their kids cannot cope with the new school life, and it’s all come one time. They’re disrupting their job and their life and their and then they see your kids there’s no, they don’t see the lights at the end of the tunnel. But from my experience, if you communicate and you keep now, we do like a daily, like almost every two, three emails a week with the teacher. This is what he did at home, and they said, this is what he did in school, and we try to come to a common ground to how to deal with him.

But that’s my advice for the parents because to go over there during the meetings and there’s friction and blame this, blame that. The teachers feel they’re not heard. So, they start resisting. And then the parents feel the same thing that they’re not heard and they start resisting and the conversation don’t go anywhere. So, it’s all about understanding and listening to each other.

Angela Kelly: Yes. Yes. You make such a valid point. And it sounds very simple because it sounds, you know, you would intellectually, it’s like, of course, let’s listen to the parents and we’ll listen to the teachers and we’ll work together and get along. But you said there’s the element of life, where, you know, you’re expecting your kid to be able to fit in, and you want your kid to feel safe and be happy and fit in at school and be able to do the things that the classroom is doing.

And you also have this whole life outside of parenting while your child is at school, you’re building a business, you know, running a company or doing whatever work it is that you’re doing out in the world and expecting your child to be in their element while you’re in yours, and then having that interruption can bring up frustration in the lives of parents. And teachers are feeling the same way. They’re feeling like we’ve got to come together somehow and figure this out because it’s interrupting the classroom. So, while it sounds simple, it’s not easy to do when emotions are running high.

Youness El Fehdi: Yes.

Angela Kelly: For both sides. So, as you’re thinking about your IEPs are all coming in for the school year, you’ll have new families coming in with new IEPs. And you’re, you know, your little ones, if you guys are elementary principals out there, you will have students coming into pre-K, TK, kindergarten with IEPs already because you can get an IEP from a very young age. So, that might be something worthwhile to check in with each and every family to see if they have an existing IEP so you have a foundation in which to start conversations and to call that meeting together right from the get-go so teachers don’t feel misinformed or uninformed around the best approach for a student.

And vice versa, I think it’s a great way to and I’m proud of you for being a parent who called the meeting and said, “Hey, we need to have this discussion.” So, if you’re a parent listening to this, don’t be afraid to advocate. The educators want to know. They want to talk with you and they want to understand how best to work with your child.

And if you’re a school leader listening to this or a teacher listening to this, look into the students assigned to your classroom or assigned in your school, particularly if they are younger, coming in or they’re new to your community. Check in with them just to make sure that if they do have a 504 and IEP that it’s addressed right off the bat so you can open the door and have a collaborative conversation right from the get-go.

Can I ask you something in terms of school leadership? Is there anything as a parent that school leaders can do to help you feel more comfortable, more welcome, more included into the school community or the classroom or the IEP process? Now, IEPs generally are the same across the board, but each school has a little bit different procedure for how they go about scheduling them and conducting them. Is there anything that you feel a school leader could benefit from your story that would be helpful for them to know to make things easier for everyone involved?

Youness El Fehdi: Yeah, I think the most important thing to do for neurodiverse community in schools from the educator standpoint is, you know, schools got their own rules and policies, and it’s very good. It’s very important to have policies and rules in school because that’s how it’s going to function. 

But in some cases, in the case of like neurodiverse kids, there’s some rules that not fit for that specific case. It’s like, let’s say you tell a neurodiverse kid to, “Hey, you’re not going to get a break until, you got to finish this assignment. And if you don’t finish it, you’re not going to get a break. You only get a break every 30 minutes, whatever.” But that kid gets a meltdown, gets impatient.

And then let’s say an inexperienced teacher will be like, “Oh, well, this kid is violating the rules. So, we’re going to do a disciplinary write-up and we’re going to call the parents and we’re going to, if it happens again, we’re going to suspend.” The problem with that is like neurodiverse people in general, they play with different sets of rules, different sets of their nature is different than neurotypical people. So, when you apply the rules that govern the neurotypical people on neurodiverse, it don’t work.

So, for the administrator’s standpoint, I would just suggest like to look at the cases that involves neurodiverse kids differently. Like if the school got strict rules, that’s good. That’s very important. It’s good. But when it comes to neurodiverse, we need to look at being flexible with them like tweaking that rule to fit the needs of that specific disabled person. 

Otherwise, we will have issues like we talked about, phone calls every day, suspensions, maybe expulsion, whatever. So, those are the things that we need to distinguish when we’re coming up with rules and applying the rules. We first look at who is that person and what type what type of rules that practical in their case and what type of rules are not that are not practical in their case. And that’s how we separate the neurotypical and the neurodiverse because in reality, we all want inclusion. We want the disabled kids to be with the neurotypical kids together. But the nature of the disability does not support that.

Angela Kelly: And just understanding that and here we’re talking about autism, but there are children with all different kinds of, you know, disabilities or differences in their, you know, neural makeup. And they, rules are meant to keep people safe and to keep some structures in place. I mean, that’s the intention of them. But when we use the rule, when it’s so firm and there’s no flexibility or accommodation considered, then the rule isn’t creating the safety that we want it to create in the end, right? 

If someone’s having a meltdown because they can’t get a physical break because their assignments’ not finished, and then they have a meltdown, that’s not safe for student, for those around them. And so, we want to keep in mind the purpose of rules, why we have them, and then also in working with individuals, what will maintain the purpose of the rule versus black and white, was the rule followed or not.

I really appreciate you sharing that because we can get kind of caught up in this is the rule, they didn’t follow the rule, and now therefore we need to do something about that versus how do we work with the child in order to keep them safe and to get the work done. So, it’s looking at why they may not be following the rule and what their needs are in order to get the work done, but also get the break they need versus this is the one way to do school, the one way to do it.

Youness El Fehdi: And this is coming from a law enforcement officer. So, I’m a law enforcement officer. I’m talking about the rules. Talking about the rules here, but…

Angela Kelly: Yes. 

Youness El Fehdi: In terms of disabled kids, it’s a different story because I believe in the rules because I live and die by the rules. This is what my job is anyway. But sometimes in terms of school and school environments and the disabled kids, we have to be flexible.

Angela Kelly: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So, tell us a little bit more about the book that you wrote around this topic because I know you’ve written several books, and we’re actually planning on having Youness back on the podcast for another topic, but today I was like, I really want to capture this because it’s the beginning of the school year, new families are coming into campus with all the new children, and this is the perfect time to build relationships with our families, to determine if they have specific needs or if they have already a plan in place where we can start implementing that plan and working together. 

So, tell us more about the book. What’s in the book? What are the tips and strategies that you’ve researched and learned and what are some things that we can do as educators to be as supportive as possible?

Youness El Fehdi: The book came out in a period when I was I was just start to get solutions for whatever a new parent, new parents have whenever they have a kid with disability. And the first thing I discussed the social issues like, let’s say you’re at Walmart and your kid has a meltdown. I talk about how people would be staring at you like and judging you as a bad parent because you cannot control your kid, which is not the case.

But my advice to the parents on that case is you just get used to it and don’t care about it because if you take it too hard every time, it’s just going to bring you down and it’s not… So, you just develop that, you know, you just go along with your day and don’t worry about it because, first of all, those bystanders, I don’t blame them because they’re uninformed. They don’t even know what autism is, probably. 

They never heard about it, and they don’t even know if your kid is autistic or not because the thing with autism, you can’t tell if somebody got autism or not. It’s not like let’s say a blind person, you can tell because, you know, they’re having a cane or whatever, it’s physical. But for autism is not physical. If you don’t really deal with that person, you wouldn’t know. So, people always approach is like a normal person.

So, that’s one of the points and the second point that I emphasize in there is the like we just talked about, early intervention is very important for your kid. That saved us a lot of challenges that would be more difficult if we did not put Adam in therapy at an early age. And therapies are so there you got occupational therapy, you got ABA, applied behavior analysis. And for Adam’s case, we tried occupational therapy at first. We didn’t see a lot of development in his behavior, and then we switched to ABA, applied behavior analysis. That’s what I specified in my book, Dominate the Challenges of Autism.

And ABA, that’s how he got the skill of eye contact. And that’s how he start talking a little bit because he’s nonverbal, but he still can before ABA, let’s give you an example. Like if you want to drink water, he couldn’t say that. He just he would just grab you. He would grab you from your hand and just lead you to the fridge or something and then you got to figure out if you want to eat or drink. But after the ABA, he start he say just sentences. He don’t talk, but 

Angela Kelly: He can communicate his needs though. 

Youness El Fehdi: Yeah, his needs, but he can’t like carry a conversation or go back and forth in conversation. But if he memorized a sentence and he know what especially when it’s comes to his needs, like water or watch TV or something, he learned that like, I want this, I want that. But he don’t really, he’s considered nonverbal, but he’s still can 

Angela Kelly: Verbalize. 

Youness El Fehdi: Yeah, can verbalize some sentences to express his needs and wants. So, ABA therapy was really important for Adam. But I read about it, and there’s a lot of pushback from people about ABA. They said, “Oh, ABA is just about repeating stuff, repeating this, repeating that.” And it should not be the standard. 

But everything, every kid with autism is different. They’re on spectrums. For my kid, ABA works best. So, my advice to the parent out there is to try. I’m not saying ABA is the golden rule, but for my son, it was the golden rule. So, for your son, it might be occupational therapy, it might be something else, might be like something about verbal something to train your kid how to talk. It just depends.

So, the spectrum is a multi-dimensional disability. So, what you do just try type of therapy and see what works best for you and then go with it. For our case, we went with the ABA therapy and it’s and it works really well. So, the techniques I put over there, there are plenty of techniques. They’re very specific. But like the case that happened in school, when the teacher was with Adam and he was having a meltdown, and she was just trying to stop, stop screaming. That’s an approach we use with neurotypical kids, not neurodiverse. So, the technique is isolate and just wait it out. Maybe 10, 15 minutes and everything is going to go back to normal. So, that’s one of the things.

And other techniques, they’re like neurodiverse kids, especially my kid but most of them is probably 95% they don’t have the sense of time. They don’t understand what time is like. They don’t distinguish between tomorrow and today. They live in the present. They live in the present because if you tell them if they if you tell them if like they say, “I want to go to the beach,” and you tell them, “Okay, this Saturday we’re going to go to the beach.” He’s then two minutes later, they’re going to come back and say, “I want to go to the beach.” And then they get frustrated. 

Angela Kelly: Right. 

Youness El Fehdi: And they’re having a meltdown because he’s thinking you’re refusing to get him to the beach because he don’t understand what Saturday is. 

Angela Kelly: Right. 

Youness El Fehdi: So, he was funny the other day. He said, “I want to go to the beach.” I said, “We’re going on Saturday.” So, he finally got frustrated. He came to me and he said, “I want Saturday.” 

Angela Kelly: That was very clever. 

Youness El Fehdi: I said, “Okay. I don’t have no control about Saturday, but…” 

Angela Kelly: That’s so cute.

Youness El Fehdi: One of the techniques about that is you bring an actual calendar, then you show him like calendar, and be, I got a calendar. That was him. And he just be like, “Okay, today is Tuesday.” Check. Tomorrow is Wednesday. Show him the calendar, check. And then he will get it. By the time it’s Saturday. 

Angela Kelly: Yes. 

Youness El Fehdi: It’d be a good idea to take him to the beach, alright? 

Angela Kelly: Yes. You do not go back on your word on that one.

Youness El Fehdi: Yeah. And also like neurodiverse kids, they’re very, quote, unquote, how we perceive it’s impatient. So, you tell them to wait. Wait 30 minutes or wait 15 minutes for whatever or five minutes, they don’t wait. So you just like, you say wait five minutes, then 30 seconds later, they’re going to come and ask for the same thing, whatever. 

Angela Kelly: Right.

Youness El Fehdi: So, we look at it as an impatience, but how are you going to define it as patience or impatience if they don’t even understand the concept of time. They don’t know the concept of time. So, that’s why I said they play with different set of rules as neurodiverse humans. So, for us, we take it as impatience, and we get mad. “You need to wait,” and you know, that’s the typical response from a neurotypical person to a neurodiverse that it’s just an impatience and you know, you just get mad. But they don’t understand the concept of time. So, our job is how to help them just understand that concept. It can’t be by just telling them because they don’t know.

So, get a timer. You got a little cell phone, a timer, and I thought, he put it by himself. I said, “Put five minutes over there.” He puts five minutes, and he just sit there and watch the timer for like five minutes, and then when it’s beeps, he showed up. 

Angela Kelly: Yes, then he’s like, “I’m ready.” You said five. 

Youness El Fehdi: So…

Angela Kelly: Yeah. That could be good with any small child actually, like the tangibles. I love what you’re sharing about like they need to maybe visually see what they can’t hold conceptually, right? They need to see visually on the calendar or with a you know, stopwatch or something that has digital, you know, countdown on it. So, those are tools that we can use with probably any kid but particularly important for those who are neurodivergent. So, I love that.

And I also love that you brought up just being aware of how we interpret behavior. You know, when you were saying something like, we interpret it as impatience or as being defiant or disrespectful, and catching ourselves to be aware that, oh, I’m thinking this behavior’s defiant. What else might it mean? Like, what are they trying to communicate? Or what else is going on here? 

And being open, just being aware of our thoughts around it and our interpretations of it, and then expanding that and being a little more open to what else might be going on here and how we can navigate that. And that does require on our part, the adults, the time and the patience which we will say, well, we don’t have the time and we run out of patience, but it’s our job as educators to do that. So, thank you for sharing that with us.

Well, what is the title of the book again? I want to make sure listeners are hearing the title of this book.

Youness El Fehdi: Dominate the Challenges of Autism.

Angela Kelly: Oh. And I find this book so inspiring and informational because it’s such a personal story that you actually took time out of your busy life working, you know, in law management, but also you’re a father, you’re a husband, and you have your child and you’re navigating all these things in life. And you took the time to write this book for informational purposes so that other families can benefit from your story, your experiences. 

And so, school listeners out there, this is, you know, very valuable information. It’s important. And it’s written through the lens of the parent. So, if you have any families out there who might find this book beneficial, I highly invite you to recommend this podcast episode. The book link will be in the show notes and the information that you want to share with us, Youness, will be in the show notes. Are there any final words that you’d like to say to all the educators listening out there?

Youness El Fehdi: The final word to educators is we, parents of disabled kids, we understand the frustrations that come from the constant complaints that come from the part of the parent. But it takes two sides to make it work. So, my main thing is the communication and always asking about what’s going on inside the home with the kids. How do you handle this type of issue and how you handle this from the part of the educators towards the parents. 

And also, it’s the parent responsibility to relay the message to teachers because you do not expect a professional, certified teacher to know everything because it’s your kid, and you have the inside knowledge. You deal with your kids more than them, and you have your kids for a longer period of time than they see him or her. So, it’s very important to relay the message and keep a constant line of communication, let’s say emails, like two, three emails a week would be enough. That’s what we do now.

And that would be more beneficial than just the parents blaming the educators and educators blaming the parents and both side shut down on each other and we end up in gridlock. Like nothing, nothing get done. So, my the main important thing is one word, communication.

Angela Kelly: Yes. Yes. Well, thank you for your time. Thank you for your expertise. It’s been an honor to meet you and know you. You are doing so many wonderful things in the world, and I look forward to having you back on another episode of The Empowered Principal® Podcast. So, thank you, Youness, for your time today. And we will drop the link to his book in the show notes.

And if you would kindly share this with any families or fellow educators that might benefit from this conversation and this insight through the lens of a parent, I would really appreciate that. Have a beautiful week. We’ll talk to you all next week. Take good care.

Youness El Fehdi: Thank you, Angela.

Angela Kelly: Thank you.

Thanks for listening to this episode of The Empowered Principal® Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, please visit AngelaKellyCoaching.com where you can sign up for weekly updates and learn more about the tools that will help you become an emotionally fit school leader.

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The Empowered Principal® Podcast Angela Kelly | Empowered Routines: Creating Habits That Support Your Leadership

The routines we create shape the way we lead, the way we show up, and the results we create. When we become intentional about our routines, we can move from operating on autopilot to creating habits that support the leader we want to be.

In this episode, I explore how empowered routines can help school leaders create the outcomes and experiences they desire. We discuss why routines are not just about what we do, but about who we become through the actions we take consistently. I share how to identify the routines that support your goals, anchor them in your why, and use self-coaching to work through the thoughts, excuses, and challenges that can keep you from following through.

Tune in this week to discover how to create routines that align with your values, strengthen your self-trust, and support your leadership. You’ll learn how making intentional decisions in advance can reduce mental chatter, build confidence in yourself, and help you honor the commitments you make to create the school leadership experience you want.

The Empowered Principal® Collaborative is for aspiring and current school leaders who want to create exceptional impact and enjoy the school leadership experience. Join us today to become a member of the only certified life and leadership coaching program for school leaders in the country by clicking here.

What You’ll Learn From this Episode:

  • Why routines are powerful tools for creating the outcomes and experiences you want.
  • How your daily actions shape your identity as a leader.
  • The importance of knowing what you want and why you want it before creating new habits.
  • How to use self-coaching when your brain offers reasons and excuses for avoiding change.
  • Why making decisions in advance can reduce mental chatter and help you follow through.
  • How honoring small commitments builds self-trust, integrity, and confidence.
  • How to create routines that support both your leadership goals and the life you want outside of school.

Listen to the Full Episode:

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Full Episode Transcript:

Hello, empowered principals. Welcome to episode 451.

Welcome to The Empowered Principal® Podcast, a not so typical educational resource that will teach you how to gain control of your career and get emotionally fit to lead your school and your life with joy by refining your most powerful tool, your mind. Here’s your host certified life coach Angela Kelly.

Well, hello, my Empowered Principals. Happy New Year. Welcome to August 2026. Here we go. We are ready for a brand new school year. Are you ready? Are you already in session? I’m thinking about all of you. I’m sending out so much love, so much enthusiasm, so much excitement for this new year. I want you to know that this is the perfect time to be thinking about empowered routines for the year.

So, it’s that time of year. We’re starting off fresh, kicking off school. EPC is starting. So for those of you who are interested in EPC, please click the link in the show notes, get registered. We are starting in September. We are so ready for you. We want you to be there. We want your talent, your wisdom, your strengths, your expertise in the room with us at the table sharing, collaborating, connecting, networking, problem-solving, supporting, creating, innovating. This is what we’re doing here in the Empowered Principal Collaborative. It’s the most loving, supportive group that you can find on the planet for school leaders. I really, deeply, truly believe that. So join us in EPC. This is the time because we are starting. We want you there. Okay.

Let’s talk about empowered routines. So, we have routines in our life, whether we recognize them and acknowledge them or not, whether we are aware of them or not, whether we are intentional with our routines or not. So, during the summer, you had a certain routine, and that routine looks very different than the school year for most people. But we can be a little more flexible in maybe our sleep schedule or our travel schedule, even our eating schedule for that matter, right? We have different schedules in the summer, but now we’re back getting into a routine. And this is the time of year to be conscious of the routines that you have, to be intentional about the routines you want to create. And I would like to offer empowered routines for you to consider and contemplate for you personally, what you believe to be empowered routines for you.

So, what’s the beauty of having a routine? We all have them. So why do we have them as humans? The way that I see routines is that they automate our decisions and actions. They’re things that we want to just do on autopilot that help us achieve the lifestyle we want, the goals that we have, the experiences we want, without having to re-decide every single day. So when you wake up in the morning, and morning routines are actually really essential, and they’re important. We’re going to talk about them in this podcast.

Your morning routine is essential because it starts your day. It determines your energy, whether or not you feel momentum, you feel excited. That energy about how you feel about your day, the life that you’re going to live today in this moment, starts with your morning routine. So morning routines, and routines in general, they automate our actions. So we don’t have to re-decide every morning. You don’t wake up and decide every morning, “Am I going to brush my teeth?” “Am I going to get dressed?” “Am I going to do my hair and makeup or take a shower?” We automate those routines in the morning because we want to be clean, we want to be healthy, we want healthy teeth, we want to go to school dressed in our professional clothing, not our jammies. And so, we will automate a routine in the morning.

So, we use routines and we leverage them because they help us create our identity. Routines are just actions that we take on a regular basis. So the things you do on a regular basis, they determine your identity. They determine how you feel, they determine what you accomplish, and how you accomplish them. Because as you know, there’s no one right way to do a morning routine or any routine. There’s just the way that works for you.

So, you do have a routine, and I’m using the morning routine as an example. You have a morning routine whether you are conscious of it or not, whether you think about it or not, and whether you’re intentional about it or not. So, it’s not the “what” in the routine. It’s not so much about what you do in the morning. You know what to do. Most of us have a pretty similar routine.

Now, some of us might wake up and meditate the first thing or journal the first thing or do gratitudes the first thing. Other people might just grab their phone and start scrolling or reading the news or checking the email to see if there’s enough subs for the day. Some people get up out of bed and take a walk or stretch or go to a yoga class. Other people get up and prepare the lunches and get the kids things all ready. There’s a routine in everybody’s home and it looks a little different, but the routines are in place so that what you want to accomplish gets accomplished without having cognitive dissonance and arguments within your brain internally every single day. Should I brush my teeth? Should I not brush my teeth? Should I pack the kids’ lunches? No, I don’t feel like packing the kids’ lunches. Do I need to get dressed today or do I not? We don’t do that. We just do. Okay?

So, this is about what we want to create for our routines. So often times, and I want to use the example of like being healthier, fit because it’s something so relatable. We know what to do. If we want to lose weight, we know eat less, move more. Or eat certain kinds of foods that work for our body that help us to lose the weight. We know that. It’s not the what. How do I do this? How do I start this routine or how do I create a routine? It isn’t the what. We know how to do it. And even for you principals out there who are brand new, you don’t know what you’re doing.

So even if you don’t know the what. And look, do we actually really know the what? When we’re thinking about my goal, I want to build a routine that the outcome of that routine is, you know, increased student success, increased teacher success. My outcome that I desire is a thriving, successful school, academically, professionally, personally, socially. I want a healthy culture. I want these things for my school. What is the routine? We might not know. Oh, do this, do that.

But even when we don’t know exactly how to create a desired outcome and what exact steps we need to do, especially if you’ve never done the job before, none of us really know exactly how to raise test scores or what support a student or a teacher might need to create successful outcomes of their own. But we do know some possibilities. We can guess, we can test our theory, even when we don’t know. So you can test out a routine, see if it empowers you, see if it empowers others, see if it works, try it. If the routine doesn’t feel good or it’s not creating the outcomes, adjust. You don’t have to get exactly know the how.

But a lot of times, we know. We’ll say things like, “I know what to do. I know I should be doing this or that.” So the first step in empowered routines for this school year is to know what you want. What outcomes do you want to create? What experiences do you want to have? How do you want to feel as a principal this year? And why? So what do you want and why? How do you want to create it and why? How do you want to feel and why? Make sure you know the why.

Here’s why. It anchors you. It anchors in the routine. I brush my teeth because I want a clean mouth, fresh breath, and healthy gums. It’s a non-negotiable. I just do it. It’s who I am. It’s my identity. I’m a person who brushes their teeth every single day. I floss, rinse, brush, I do all the things. Water pick, whatever you have. We do that because we desire the outcome. It becomes a non-negotiable and we get results from it. We go to the dentist, we don’t have cavities, or we go to the dentist and they clean and tell us good job. Keep it up. We want that. We don’t want to lose our teeth. We don’t want gum disease. We want a healthy mouth, okay?

Sometimes we know what to do, sometimes we don’t, but we can test the theory. If you want something but you’re not sure what, you can anchor yourself in the why. This is why I want it, so I’m willing to figure out a routine that helps me get what I want. If I want to lose five pounds, I, you know, let myself have fun this summer, I gained five pounds, I want to lose it during the school year. I’m going to meal prep. That’s going to be my theory. I’m going to test my theory. I’m going to meal prep on the weekend, have everything ready, put it in containers, and off I go. I’ll test that theory. If that doesn’t work, maybe I need to walk before or after school, or you test the theory and see what works for your body.

But that is the easy part when it comes to building empowered routines, knowing what you want and why you want it. Most of us know what we want and why we want it. And if you don’t, start there. What makes empowered routines challenging are the very convincing reasons that our mind will provide us as to why we cannot execute that routine, why we can’t put it into play and make it become a habit, make it become an identity. It’s just who we are. It’s non-negotiable. It’s just what we do. We don’t even think about it. We just do it. Okay?

What makes empowered routines difficult to implement and to execute? Our brain has the motivational triad going on that works against us. It wants us to seek out pleasure, avoid pain, make things as easy as possible. When your brain wants those three things and you’re asking it to do something that’s a little bit uncomfortable or a little bit different, or it requires some effort or some thinking power, your brain will be like, “Nah, I don’t feel like that. I’m kind of tired. I don’t have time for that. That’s not going to work for me,” right? It says things like, “Oh, we couldn’t get into classrooms today. I had a discipline issue.” Feels very reasonable, feels very justified, and maybe it was, but it is a reason and it’s an excuse as to why you didn’t get into classrooms. I know that feels harsh. Just stick with me on this.

Or somebody will say to me, they’re trying to get home to their family, but they keep going home late and then their spouse is upset and the kids, you miss this and that, or the kids are upset, and it’s a big mess, but you just can’t seem to get yourself out of the office. They’ll say, “I couldn’t go home on time. There was a meeting last minute. I had to catch up on paperwork. I hadn’t checked emails all day. I had to get this thing turned in.” There’s always a reason as to why they can’t implement the new empowered routine, the routine that says, “I manage my time, I determine when I work, when I go home, and I ensure that I get my priorities taken care of so that I can be home with my family because that is a priority for me.” The brain is very convincing, you guys. “Can’t make it to yoga, too tired after work. I just can’t do it. Or I can’t get up and walk in the morning, it’s too early.”

Most of the time, we know what we need to do. We know the steps if we want a certain goal. Let’s say we want to get into classrooms, and because we believe that being in classrooms, being present, connecting with kids, connecting with teachers, you want to be in there. You want to see what’s going on. You want to be in the learning environment so that you can be the instructional leader that you are passionate about being. We know what we need to do. What we don’t know how to do when it comes to empowered routines and implementing them is how to coach ourselves through all of the reasons and the excuses and the rationales that our brain will offer us in the moment.

And what I have found to be true for myself is that it is much more difficult to honor a routine that you wish to establish when your brain starts telling you, “It’s okay, you don’t need to do it now. Do it tomorrow.” Or, “You know, you have to get it done right now. There’s no time for going home on time.” To either delay work and you’ll do it tomorrow and not do the routine because you’re too tired or there’s not enough time or something came up and there’s all these reasons, or you do all of the work because you’re afraid to not do the work and so you’re constantly overworking, overexerting, and not living a life outside of school leadership.

But it’s very difficult to honor the routine in the moment because you have feelings about it. You’re either going to be too tired, too exhausted, not have the energy, or you’re going to be so afraid if you don’t get it done or you don’t check the email or you go home on time, you’re going to be deemed a terrible principal and you’re going to lose your job. So, my little secret here, my little hack, is to make the decisions about your routine in advance. Decide ahead of time. This is when I’m going into classrooms. Put it on the calendar. Mark it as a sacred hour on your calendar. I’m going into classrooms. Don’t call me unless there’s life and limb happening, right? Like, if there’s a 911 or potential loss of life, then of course, interrupt me. Otherwise, I’m prioritizing this. It’s my new routine. It’s who I am as a principal. We don’t do that.

If you make these decisions in advance, it’s much easier when your brain’s like, “Oh, this thing, I got to check the email.” “Nope, we’re doing this.” The problem is when the excuses come in, because they will, there’s no stopping it. And I don’t care how long you’ve been a principal, our brain continues to offer the excuses and the reasons why we don’t want to honor the empowered routines we have set into place or that we want to set in place. But when you make the decision in advance, your brain does have less chatter. There’s just less conversation around it in your mind. It won’t extinguish the chatter, but it reduces it. It turns the volume down.

Let me provide a concrete example. I used to struggle in the morning. I would wake up really early and I didn’t want to be loud, but I would be tired, of course. And I just couldn’t decide what I wanted to wear. And I would sit and stare at my closet and then I try something on. I don’t feel like this. I don’t feel like that. I just don’t want to do this. I don’t know what to wear. And I would waste time trying to make a decision. I hated that feeling. It didn’t feel good in the morning. I just was always felt like I was running late.

And so what I ended up doing was on Sunday, I would go in to my bedroom and I would get in my closet and I would pick out five outfits. Monday was my school colors day, so I would put out all of my leopard, Monolama leopard sweatshirt, polo, whatever I was wearing for the day. That was Monday. Tuesdays, I knew I had leadership team meeting, so I wore something professional because I had to go to the district office meetings. You know, Wednesday was staff meeting day. Thursdays was minimum day. Fridays was Fridays, right? So a little more casual on Fridays. We had a lot of, you know, usually sneakers and a blazer or something comfortable but casual because I knew I’d be running around, okay?

So, I started just thinking about, I already know what’s coming up for my week. And so I knew the meetings I had, I knew the professionalism, and I did keep a pair of like extra pair of shoes, extra blazer. So if I had to dress up, or I also had a pair of flats if I had to run around and be more comfortable for emergency stuff. But I kind of knew what was coming for the week. And so I made myself decide on Sunday, this is what my outfits are for the week. I hung them in the bathroom for the week. They were just there and I didn’t have to think about it. Monday’s was in front, Friday’s was in back. Just pulled it off and done. I had a like a rack, a hook thing that I put all of my outfits on and it just was there, wasn’t in the way, made it work. You can hang it anywhere. It doesn’t have to be in your bathroom, but that for me, that’s what worked.

But then I just went in and I knew to get ready, that’s what I was wearing for the day. No more chatter, didn’t argue. Now, did my brain be like, “Oh, I don’t feel like that today. I want to wear other things?” Sometimes, yes. But in that moment, what was most important is that I honored the decision I had already made for myself. Just wear this outfit. Unless there was a stain or something was wrong with it, but we want to honor the decisions we make in advance when it comes to empowered routines because that is how we build up our integrity. That’s how we build up trust in ourselves. Choosing in advance helped me not to have to make the decision in the morning when I wasn’t fully awake. And even then, my brain would still be like, “I don’t want to wear that today. I want something cozier, more comfortable, or I don’t feel perky today. I want that color. I want to wear a different color.”

So, I could always allow myself to change if I wanted to. That’s not the point. I could allow that. But when I do that, I erode my trust and faith in myself. I diminish my self-discipline. I dilute the strength of my word to myself, of my own integrity, of honoring what I said I would do, the promise I made to myself. Now, is a different outfit life or death? Absolutely not. But if I can’t do this with small things, small routines, if I can’t honor them and build up my self-discipline and my self-trust and my self-integrity and my faith in myself and honoring my word and sticking to that promise to myself for the little things like an outfit, I’m definitely going to allow my brain to talk me out of the big things, the more uncomfortable things, the things that are challenging and scary and overwhelming. I’m for sure going to avoid those things and keep changing my mind.

So empowered routines are about what you want, why you want them, and the self-coaching that is required to honor them. This is the gift of coaching, learning the skill of self-coaching. You’re not going to have a coach in your pocket. I can’t come with you every second of the day and be like, “Okay, let’s coach on this.” You’ve got to learn to do it yourself. That’s what EPC teaches you. Self-coaching teaches you how to recognize your current routines, your brain’s typical excuses for those routines, and how you react to those excuses so that you can learn how to self-coach and honor. And look, if a routine isn’t working, you of course can renegotiate that routine, but it comes from a place of what you want, why you want it, and what you believe is the best routine to get you there.

So be aware of your routines. Create some awareness. Create consciousness around your current routines. This is the perfect time to do it because it’s the beginning of the year and decide this is what I want. This is why I want it. This is who I need to be to do it. And I want to learn how to self-coach myself, to empower myself, to rely on me, for me, for my best interest, for my empowered routines. You are worthy of this. You deserve this. It is a skill that every human on the planet deserves to learn is the skill of self-coaching.

So, I’m inviting you in before the doors close. We’re starting in September. Join us for the Empowered Principal Collaborative. If you prefer one-on-one coaching, schedule a consult call. There’s an individual consult call link in the notes and we can talk about it and decide if one-on-one’s the best fit or if EPC is the best fit. But we’d love to have you in the Empowered Principal Collaborative. Have a beautiful day, my fellow leaders, and I will talk with you next week. Take care.

Thanks for listening to this episode of The Empowered Principal® Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, please visit AngelaKellyCoaching.com where you can sign up for weekly updates and learn more about the tools that will help you become an emotionally fit school leader.

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The Empowered Principal® Podcast Angela Kelly | The Stories You’ll Tell: Creating Your Legacy as a School Leader

The stories we tell about our leadership experiences are shaped by the choices we make every day. As school leaders, we have the opportunity to create meaningful memories, lasting impact, and a legacy that extends far beyond our time in the role.

In this episode, I reflect on the deeper purpose behind school leadership and why the work we do is about more than getting through the daily grind. I share how creating my new Empowered Principal Academy, reflecting on major life changes, and thinking about the future led me to consider the stories we’ll tell about our lives, our leadership, and the impact we have on others. When we lead with intention, awareness, and consciousness, we can create experiences that align with our values and the legacy we want to leave behind.

Discover how to shift from operating on autopilot to leading with purpose and intention. You’ll learn how to reconnect with your why, focus on the impact you’re creating, and begin creating your legacy as a school leader through the stories you choose to live and tell.

The Empowered Principal® Collaborative is for aspiring and current school leaders who want to create exceptional impact and enjoy the school leadership experience. Join us today to become a member of the only certified life and leadership coaching program for school leaders in the country by clicking here.

What You’ll Learn From this Episode:

  • Why school leadership is about more than managing the daily grind.
  • How the choices you make today shape the stories and memories you create.
  • The importance of reconnecting with your why as a leader.
  • How coaching can change your perspective, decisions, and leadership journey over time.
  • Why leading with intention and awareness creates a greater impact on others.
  • How to focus on possibility instead of simply expecting tomorrow to look like today.
  • Ways to create meaningful experiences for your staff, students, families, and community.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:

Episodes Related to Creating Your Legacy as a School Leader:

Full Episode Transcript:

Hello, empowered principals. Welcome to episode 450. 

Welcome to The Empowered Principal® Podcast, a not-so-typical educational resource that will teach you how to gain control of your career and get emotionally fit to lead your school and your life with joy by refining your most powerful tool, your mind. Here’s your host, certified life coach Angela Kelly. 

Well, hello, my empowered principals. Happy New Year. Happy first month of school. It’s official. We’re in August. We are at it. You’re busy. You are spending a lot of energy on setting up school. So when we are fulfilling a huge to-do list and we are on autopilot, our energy, our mind, our feelings go a little subconscious. And I’d like this podcast to be a moment of consciousness, of awareness for you.

So take a deep breath and settle in. And I want to start by grounding you with a story, a true story that recently happened with me. So I’ve created a brand new program called the Empowered Principal Academy. Now, I didn’t heavily market this because I’m testing it for the first time. So I’ve mentioned it on the podcast, I’ve mentioned it a little bit on social media, and my deepest intention was to have a smaller group of school leaders who have coached with me already before. 

And the reason for that is because this program is an academy. It’s instruction, it’s intense on how to coach, how to be a leader who also coaches. Leadership, mentorship, coaching, they are different hats. And we dissect the difference between a leader who directs and leads, a mentor, and a coach, and why all three of those hats are important and necessary for extraordinary leaders.

So we dove deeply into that. We’re actually in the middle of it right now. And in creating this program, along with a conversation I had with my financial planner, those two actions in my life, creating this program and working with my financial planner has created a lot of consciousness in my life, a lot of awareness. 

Because for a period of time, and I’ve been pretty open about my personal experiences, I’ve gone through a lot. You know, I’ve gone through a change in marital status. I lost my father almost a year ago, to date. He passed away August 15th, the day after his 75th birthday. And then eight weeks after my dad passed, my grandmother had a fall and succumbed to her injuries, two weeks shy of her 90th birthday.

So we’ve had some pretty significant losses in our life, pretty significant emotions and grief to process, and also moments of extreme contemplation and awareness. At the same time, that extreme awareness of who am I now without my dad, without my grandmother, without my marital status, without so many aspects of my life that I used to think were permanent, that felt permanent, that felt safe, that felt certain, I was now faced with the humanness of uncertainty. 

And it invited me into very deep reflection on who I am and how I want to live my life, how I want to experience life, how I want to serve in the world, who I want to be as a mother, a daughter, a sister, a friend, a coach, a colleague. I really deeply contemplated that. And I also went on autopilot for many things just to get through a day of grief, just to get through a day of sadness or frustration as I was processing through the human aspect of all of these changes in my life. 

But what it’s done in creating something brand new that is to me my most epic masterpiece to date, and along with sitting down with my financial planner and talking about the future, and who I want to be, and why I want to be that, and where I want to go, and what I want to do, and how I want to contribute to the world, it really deepened my consciousness.

And I recently wrote a post that I shared on Instagram and Facebook, and it was titled, I think I also sent it in an email for those of you who are on my email list, it was called The Stories You’ll Tell. And this post was generated from a deep reflection on why I coach in the first place, who I am as a coach, why I coach, but more importantly, how coaching impacts lives, my life, your life, students’ life, teachers’ life. 

Every person in our sphere who’s anywhere near our existence, our energy, is impacted by the coaching that we do. You listening to this podcast impacts you, which then in turn impacts those around you because you think differently, or you have new contemplations, or you consider a new perspective, or you have an aha. And because of that, your energy shifts, your mindset shifts, your emotions shift, your actions shift, your decisions shift, everything about you can shift in a moment.

And so when I do this work, and this is a great time to contemplate that because we’re right here at the beginning of the school year. When I do this work, when I work with school leaders, whether you’re an assistant principal, an aspiring leader, a building principal, a district leader, I work with people at the county level, at the state level, at the federal level. I work with leaders throughout education all the way up to the Department of Education. 

And when I think about why we all do what we do, it’s because of the stories that we get to tell, of the memories that we get to create, of the impact we generate. It’s a conscious decision to put our energy into the empowerment of our staff, our students, our families, our communities, our colleagues, our industry as educators.

We aren’t just here to get through the grind of the kickoff of school, which is coming up. You’re in it right now. You’re in the energy of a new school year. You’re kicking off a new year. There’s a lot of energy involved in that, and it can feel like a grind, and it can feel exhausting. But there’s something beyond that surface. 

There’s a reason we care about school being ready for kids. There’s a reason we care about our staff members being on the right seat on the bus to start the year. There’s a reason that we care that the campus looks welcoming and tidy and clean, and it’s safe. There’s a reason we will overwork and over-prepare so that families feel welcome, teachers feel comfortable in their spaces, they have what they need, students know where to go, what to do. There’s a reason we overthink processes, dismissal, drop-off, the cafeteria, master schedules. There’s a reason.

So I like to think about each and every one of you and the stories that you will tell about your school leadership experience. I already have my stories as memories because I no longer actively lead a school building or I’m not in a district office at this time. In this moment, those are memories. I have stories I created about my school leadership experience. And you are creating stories about your school leadership experience.

So yes, coaching in real time, it’s the best thing that ever happened because you do get to tackle problems and solution, create solutions in real time. I’m dealing with this scenario. We discuss it, your thoughts and feelings about it, your considerations about other people’s thoughts and feelings about it, we make empowered decisions, we plan an approach, and we move forward. That is the activeness of coaching. 

But the outcomes of coaching, the stories that you tell, the good, bad, and the ugly, the funny stories, the horrible stories, the enlightening stories, the inspiring stories, the contribution stories, the failure stories, the experience of school leadership is in the stories you’re creating, the stories you’re telling, the memories, the stories you’re going to tell at your retirement party, or when you resign from this position because you got promoted or you got another job or you were offered something bigger for your next chapter, and you’re going to have a party and you’re going to have memories and stories, and it will feel so sad to say goodbye. 

Even though there were moments you’re like, I don’t think I can handle this job. The stories that you’re going to tell your grandchildren one day when they’re like, “Wow, granny, grandma, Nana, Nona, what was it like to be a school principal when you were back then in the day? What was it like? Did you have chalk?” Right? They’re stories. What were the kids like? What were the classrooms like? Even though it’s maybe only 10 years or 20 years from now, they’ll think it was, you know, you were writing on stone tablets. 

Great stories will emerge from students and families and memories and meetings that went great, meetings that went horrible, events that you held. Think about the things you remember already. Are you remembering the joy, the fun, the reason that you’re here? All of the moments of empowerment, of educating, of teaching and learning and inspiration and breakthroughs and transformations in students or staff members? Think of the stories that you sit around and tell with your colleagues, friends. I have a girls’ weekend, they’re all teachers. We tell the stories over and over. We laugh at them every time. The kids are hilarious.

What matters most to me as your coach, whether I’m your coach through this podcast or whether you have worked with me in the past or you work with me right now or you desire to work with me in the future, what matters most to me is not that I just simply support you through the grind, which is what I do on the surface. What matters most to me is why you do what you do. That you’re connected to your why. That you’re connected to the story you’re creating. This is not permanent. 

You as the school leader of this school, in this district, in this community, is not permanent. What matters most to me, my why is your why. I want you to create consciousness around your why. To remember why you’re setting up school, why you’re running your, you know, around crazy on your campus, why you’re connecting, why you’re developing relationships, why you’re putting out the class lists the way that you do. There’s a why behind everything. And we go on subconscious, we go on autopilot.

I want your stories to have deep meaning. I want them to matter to you. Not matter to the people you’re telling. When you tell your grandkids the stories, they will be enamored with the stories at their developmental level, but they’re not their stories. They’re just entertainment for them. They’re like, “Wow, it’s one way to feel connected to grandpa or grandma.” 

But to you, it was your life. This job is your life. And are we spending our life focusing on how awful it is, how hard it is, what we can’t get done, what’s in our way, the obstacles, the people, the negative energy, the subconscious tapes running in the back of our mind that are just driving us? Do we actually believe there’s a different outcome for tomorrow for this school year? Or do we just expect the kids to act the same, the teachers to be the same, the test scores to be similar? Where are we in our story?

I believe that for us to have deeper meaning, to create influence that has further impact and to create experiences with the best memories possible is through coaching. Coaching changes the storyline, and not just this day’s storyline. You’re listening to this now. You’re consciously aware of the words that I’m saying and you’re contemplating how these words impact you personally or your experience personally. 

But coaching week after week, over time, changes the storyline. It changes the entire manuscript of your life. It changes the lens through which you look, the perspective through which you consider, the narrative in which you write, the direction that you take yourself and your school and your career. The experiences that you file in your mind, the ongoing legacy of your work that goes far beyond your human existence. The people that I’ve impacted in my life will live longer than me. The students that you’re serving are going to live, maybe, longer than you. That’s the plan. 

Our impact goes so much further than the traffic you’re in right now listening to this podcast, or the conversation that didn’t go well, or the conversation you’re anticipating is not going to go well. We create our tomorrow in our mind. Tomorrow hasn’t happened yet. We have no idea what’s going to happen. But our brain wants predictability because it feels safe, it feels certain, and we just expect tomorrow to look like today, when in reality we have no idea.

And the only reason we ever think like, well, I guess it’s possible for things to be better next year is because something unexpected would have to come up. Something out of this world that we would never see coming would have to come in and save the day or change the trajectory of our experience, of our story. So contemplate this. Your story is why I coach. It’s why I created the Empowered Principal. I don’t want to be just another educational consultant who offers professional development and helps you, I don’t know, what everyone’s out there doing. 

But what I’m here to do is to help you create a story. Knowing that you’re not permanent, that your impact isn’t permanent. None of this is permanent. So why not make the best of it? Why not focus on what’s working? Why not focus on feel-good goals? Why not focus on what we want to be, what we’re striving to be? Why not create more awareness, more stories? Why not create stories that we love versus stories of all the hard, all the grief, all the pain? Because it’s both. We’re going to have moments of grief, moments of pain, moments of sadness. That is the full package of this experience, no matter what. But we can create our stories with intention and with consciousness.

My desire for you is to have the most satisfying and rewarding story. That’s yours to own. The one that you love to share, that you would laugh with your friends year after year after year. The same stories, doesn’t matter. They’re great stories because you love them. You love to share them. You love to relive them. You cherish them. And some of the hardest stories become our most cherished stories. The stories of triumph and overcoming, or the stories of failure and how we learned from that. 

And what can feel so bad in a moment last year, we don’t have to pack that up in a suitcase and bring it to this year. Only pack up the wisdom, leave the rest, leave the trauma, and anticipate possibility versus predictability. Because here’s the best part about you having a great story to tell. The stories that others can tell because of your commitment to having a great story becomes an outcome beyond measure.

When you show up and you identify as an empowered principal and you’re committed to having a great story this year, full of possibility, full of potential, anything’s possible. We have no idea what tomorrow brings or what this school year will bring. And we’re here for it. We’re anticipating the best. We’re showing up as the best version of ourselves today. When we do that, that energy is contagious.

People want a piece of that. They want a leader who inspires them just energetically through their energy, their words, their motion, their positivity, their willingness to believe in possibility, in our potential, in new things. That tomorrow’s a brand new day, anything could happen. You know, we find it really easy to be like, “Yeah, the bad things could happen.” And we believe that that’s possible. But when it comes to the good stuff, we don’t believe that’s possible. We’re like, “Well, that probably won’t happen, but this could happen.”

So decide to live a great story, to create a great story, one that you can tell now and in the future so that other people, your staff, your students, your community, your families will look back and say, “Wow, what a great school leader we had. My kids’ school was the best. What a great experience we had as a family attending that school. What a great experience teachers had teaching at that school because of her, because of him, because of them.” 

Teachers whose careers thrived because of you. Support staff who served the school community with joy and care and a love of being at your school because of you. Parents and families who felt heard, seen, appreciated, all because of you. Students who kept trying and failing and trying again until they got it, until they succeeded. Why? Because of you.

Your story includes them and their story includes you. Have a beautiful school year. Create the story you want to live. And if you’re so inclined, we would love to have you in EPC. The Empowered Principal Collaborative, this is what we talk about. This is the energy. We look at possibility, not predictability. We create stories on purpose. We create experiences on purpose. Consciousness, alignment, awareness, intention, that’s where it’s at. 

So you can choose to lead your school on autopilot, or you can choose to lead with intention, awareness, and consciousness. That is what creates a beautiful experience. Because you decide in every moment and every day, “This is who I am. This is how I lead. This is the experience I’m creating. This is the story I’m living to tell.”

Have the most beautiful year. I love you all. I look forward to meeting you in EPC. Take good care. Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of The Empowered Principal® Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, please visit AngelaKellyCoaching.com where you can sign up for weekly updates and learn more about the tools that will help you become an emotionally fit school leader.

 

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The Empowered Principal® Podcast Angela Kelly | The Dysregulated Kid: Creating More Regulated Schools with Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge

Understanding student behavior through the lens of nervous system regulation can transform the way schools support students, teachers, and families. When we move beyond labels and look at what a child’s behavior may be communicating, we create opportunities for connection, learning, and growth.

In this episode, I talk with Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge, a leading expert in nervous system regulation and author of The Dysregulated Kid®, about how regulation impacts learning, behavior, and mental health. We discuss why creating more regulated schools starts with helping adults regulate themselves, how shared language and simple strategies can support entire classrooms, and why students don’t need to wait for a diagnosis before receiving tools that help them thrive.

Tune in this week to discover how regulation can become a foundation for stronger relationships, more supportive classrooms, and healthier school communities. You’ll learn how to recognize signs of dysregulation, support students and staff through simple regulation practices, and create environments where everyone has greater capacity to learn, connect, and grow.

The Empowered Principal® Collaborative is for aspiring and current school leaders who want to create exceptional impact and enjoy the school leadership experience. Join us today to become a member of the only certified life and leadership coaching program for school leaders in the country by clicking here.

What You’ll Learn From this Episode:

  • Why understanding dysregulation can change the way we approach student behavior and support needs.
  • How nervous system regulation impacts learning, attention, behavior, and emotional well-being.
  • Why adult regulation is an essential part of creating supportive classrooms and school environments.
  • How simple practices like breath work and shared language can support students and educators.
  • The importance of looking for root causes instead of only responding to behaviors.
  • How regulation strategies can benefit all students, not just those with a diagnosis or identified need.
  • Why building regulation into daily school routines can increase capacity for learning and connection.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:

Episodes Related to Creating More Regulated Schools:

Full Episode Transcript:

Angela Kelly: Hello, empowered principals. Welcome to episode 449. 

Welcome to The Empowered Principal® Podcast, a not-so-typical educational resource that will teach you how to gain control of your career and get emotionally fit to lead your school and your life with joy by refining your most powerful tool, your mind. Here’s your host, certified life coach Angela Kelly. 

Hello empowered principals. Welcome to today’s episode. I have a very good friend and colleague of mine here on the podcast. Her name is, I call her Dr. Roseann, Roseann Capanna-Hodge. She is an expert in regulation, nervous regulation. We’re going to talk about it. She has just dropped a new book called The Dysregulated Kid, which I know all of you are interested in hearing about.

We’re here as leaders. We’re here as teachers, we’re here as students, and so I’m going to let Roseann tell you a little bit about herself, her background, and her new book because it is fantastic. It’s something we need to be talking about on the regular here in education for ourselves and for our students. So Roseann, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Well, thank you for that beautiful introduction. I’m grateful to have the privilege of knowing you, and this is my second time on. So…

Angela Kelly: It is. That’s right. 

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: I’m glad. And as a certified school psychologist, I know what it’s like to be boots on the ground in a school, and it is a different time, and we are constantly evolving, and people at every level in a school, right from the custodian to the superintendent have a lot on their shoulders, you know? And my book is called The Dysregulated Kid because for 30 years, I’ve been watching this dysregulation crisis happen. 

But for 30 years, I have been helping the most dysregulated kids and families regulate their nervous systems, which means they can pay attention better, they can process better, they’re happier, they have less mental health issues and symptoms. So I really wanted to take the science, as I always do, and make it so ridiculously easy that anybody could regulate themselves, from the teacher who’s got a classroom full of kids that are struggling to the mom and dad, to the grandma, to anybody. 

This is really a book about what are simple ways that every day I can do little things to bring my nervous system back into balance and really, why is it so important? You know, because we are moving to this place of constant clinical diagnosis and people having strife and being unhappy and struggling with focus and all these things that happen when the nervous system dysregulates. And yet we’re making regulation feel like it’s unattainable and so hard. And I’m here to tell you, absolutely not, that if the things that I did with the most dysregulated kids with serious clinical issues, if they worked when people did it, it can work for anybody.

Angela Kelly: Yes. I love this approach because I know that for the last 30 years you have been working in a clinical setting with students get referred for behavioral or academic concerns. They go through 504 and people are looking for them to get diagnosed for an IEP to qualify for an individualized education plan. 

And one of my philosophies in these meetings was, can we not just do the strategies that we’re waiting for the strategy until they get the diagnosis versus just like, let’s try the strategy first and see if we can just circumvent this whole process of getting them labeled. Let’s just do it now in the classrooms and see what happens versus having them go through this process of getting labeled and getting qualified and then giving them these strategies. It sounds like that’s what I hear you saying as well.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Well, that’s amazing. And where were you in all my school meetings? Actually, I did have some amazing school meetings. It’s just sometimes when you’re in these rooms and you’re in hearings and things like that, it didn’t always go well. But why wouldn’t we want to do more for everybody? 

You know, when I used to go into a school, whether it was a private school or a public school, I would be going in for one kid, and I would go to the teacher and say, let’s do this for the whole classroom. Like everybody will benefit and you will feel the benefit. And so then I would have teachers who would get so excited, administrators like, of course. And every time it made things better. And we shouldn’t wait. And guess what? We now, right, what is it? By 2031, one in 27 births of male and female will be an autistic child.

And it is, I believe it’s one in 27 males already. So we now have just about in every classroom in America, we’re moving to having an autistic student. That’s just one form of neurodivergence, right? That’s a nervous system that’s more sensitive to their environment, going to require these things. Why wouldn’t we do this for everybody? Because we often think nervous system dysregulation, which is really difficulty shifting your nervous system between stress and calm. We’re supposed to be able to moderate stress. Every day we have stressors. You and I were talking about some of the personal stressors we were catching up.

And even talking about it gets you a little, gets your nervous system a little activated. But that’s normal. In a healthy nervous system, it goes from calm, parasympathetic, then a stressor happens and it moves into a sympathetic dominant. But a normal system will say, perceive threat, danger is over, come back down. What’s happening is I talk about the nervous system as a stress cup, Angela, and what happens when a cup is, you put too much in a cup. 

So the nervous system is the same thing. It does not have unlimited capacity, and in our modern life, we just keep adding stressors, right? I’m going to short change sleep. I’m going to stretch myself and take two AP classes and the rest all honors classes. I’m going to, I don’t know, I had a fight with my boyfriend, my mom and I yelled, whatever. All these things sort of happen. And then we have all these people walking around going, you know, I can’t pay attention. I have anxious thoughts. I’m so snappy at everybody. 

And we then think, well, is it anxiety? Is it this? Maybe it is. I don’t know that. But our go-to should be like, we’ve got to regulate. And these are all strategies that are accessible regardless if you have a trauma background or a clinical diagnosis or your age. These are all free, accessible things because what was important to me having done clinic work, not everybody could get to me. Not everybody could afford me. And hello, I’m one person. I was one person. And you know, I no longer do clinical work. I’m just on this mission to really provide the antidote to this crisis. And hello, it’s really simple. It’s not so hard. We got to stop overthinking and start doing.

Angela Kelly: Mhm. Mhm. Say more about that because I think the listeners out here, they’re really curious. They probably heard about nervous system regulation, dysregulation. That language is becoming more mainstream as well as like vagus nerve. Like I’ve heard a lot of conversation in social media presence with the vagus nerve. So tell us a little bit more about that.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Sure. I mean, I mentioned our stress response system, which is our ANS, which is our autonomic nervous system, and its job is to mitigate and handle stress as you do things. So my son called me earlier and I don’t like to talk to him when he’s in the car, but all of a sudden I hear him go, holy cow. And I’m like, is everything all right? And he said somebody came into his lane. So he got, he got himself excited, and then I was like, okay, take a, I could hear him breathing. I was like, oh, I’m so glad you breathed through that.

And then I just said, that happened to me twice yesterday, Max. That’s why we can’t be on the phone. He’s like, I know. I said, I love you, goodbye, you know, and he brought himself down because he works, he has to work real hard, my Max. My Max is the dysregulated kid. He’s my opening story. There’s lots of other kids in there and success stories of people who did these things. 

But when we talk about that autonomic response, we talk and the vagus nerve. So our vagus nerve is what connects our gut to our brain. And so we have to start thinking about our body as a whole body system. And when we think about mental health, we really only think about the brain. We only think about neurotransmitters. And that’s because our diagnostic and statistical manual, what we use to diagnose people, unfortunately very much aligns with a pharmacological intervention. It doesn’t align with, let’s back it up. Let’s start looking at behavior as signs of the nervous system being under or overstimulated. That’s a huge reframe. 

So instead of saying, why is this kid doing this, you say, what is the nervous system showing that this kid needs, right? Or even this classroom. When I think about, I have this great story in my book, and I have a whole bonus chapter just for schools in this book because again, I’ve been there. But I remember going to this class, and it was the first time I had been in a school where there was a kindergarten. So I was there on the first day, Ang.

Angela Kelly: It’s the best. And you know I taught kindergarten for 15 years.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: You know exactly. So it was an inner-city school, so there were kids that had never set foot in a school. And there was, the school district had at the time 47 languages. So there was all kinds of things going on. And there was a teacher who was like grounding mother earth. And I walk in the classroom, there was like an aide guarding the door. There’s a kid that’s like trying to get out, you know, it was like full-on chaos, but not really because the teacher was like, I’m going to be the calm. And she just became the calm. 

And I remember being like, this is a masterclass in how much your regulation impacts everybody else. So when we’re talking about the nervous system and all of these things, vagus nerve, vagus stimulator, gut brain connection, these are all really important things. And our brain does connect to our gut, and stress impacts every single system in the body, your immune system, your hormone system, your gut, your neurotransmitters. 

So we’re often trying to go to these other things to do an intervention. And I’m not saying they’re not important. What I’m saying is if we don’t regulate first, nothing sticks. And so it’s part of this crisis that we’re seeing in that interventions are not working. How many times is a school psychologist that I say, you know, hey, listen, I really think you should go to therapy. Here’s why. And the parent would be like, we already did that. It didn’t work.

To finish that idea, right, we have these different systems and nothing is going to stick treatment wise. Like I said, somebody says, you know, I want to do therapy and they say it doesn’t work or I try this. It’s because the nervous system is too activated to accept that treatment. And the way biology works is your frontal lobes go offline as soon as you activate in a sympathetic dominant state. So what does that look like in a class? A bunch of ADD kids. 

And if you’ve ever watched a kid who experienced trauma or a kid who’s anxious or somebody who’s got OCD, they don’t look so different from kids with biological ADHD behaviorally. Their brains look very different because I did, you know, over 10,000 QEEG brain maps, which are basically brain scans. So we have to move beyond what we thought, and we have to start bringing these very practical things into the classroom, into homes because we think about these big interventions and parents are choking. They can’t do these things. So we need to make things much more simple. And that is what I did, not just in this book, but in all of my work.

Angela Kelly: That’s incredible. It’s interesting because in school, like I work with the school leadership side and they’re noticing the same thing in the adults in the room. Like, so the adults on campus, working with families, community members, in addition to children, and people feel like they are at a loss. They’re not sure what to do because you can only get so many kids through the IEP system, right? Where you’re qualifying them for special education. 

Only so many kids, one will qualify. Two, you can only pump through so many administrations and so many administering of these exams and these tests to determine qualification, which is why I said like, why, why not just start what we think is best practice for these students and go there and see if we can help from the onset. And then the kids who aren’t regulating at that point, we can, we can provide additional supports. 

So in the work that you’re doing now, and you’re seeing this, you know, you actually mentioned it as a crisis, which I believe educators would agree that this, we’re at a crisis level and teachers are feeling ill-equipped, school leaders are feeling ill-equipped. What are some, you said making it easy. They’re probably clapping right now as they’re listening to this. What are some things that you can recommend that they start doing that is very tangible, very hands-on, and something that’s very simple to start incorporating into the campus, the classroom, students and staff?

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Well, I think when it comes to schools, being that I definitely have worked in multiple schools, I feel that what happens is we have trends in school system, right? Whether it’s reading or math or social emotional learning, but what does really help and makes things a lot easier because schools, right, have a lot of pressure on them. They’re asked to do everything that isn’t being done at home. And let’s be honest, again, parents are struggling. We know this, right? And so educators are in a unique position because they have a lot more training around how kids, how they can shape kids’ behavior by what they do and say. 

And so we’re trying to transfer that knowledge to parents who, who may or may not be receptive to it. I feel like a lot of parents really are receptive to it. But one of the things that really works is shared language, right? So when schools start using things, the best way to amplify this is sharing the language. What systems could come into place? So I created shared language. So one of the things that I talk about is something called CALMS, C-A-L-M-S. It’s just a simple acronym. There’s nothing in there that costs any money. And the C is about co-regulating. 

So the first step in everything is to get the adult to regulate, as we talked about. So that’s the teacher, that’s the principal, that’s the parent. So the question becomes, how do we do that? You know, the other, the other parts, A is avoiding personalizing, L is looking for root causes, M is modeling the skills you want, and S is to support and reinforce because we as educators know, kids need a lot of reinforcement. I don’t think any parents do that, right? They don’t understand that. Who knew? You had to reinforce so much. You think you just say it one time. And we remember our own things, we think we only were told one time. It’s not true.

Angela Kelly: Right. Because our parents were like, don’t make me have to tell you twice.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah, I know. How about, don’t make me tell you it again. So when we back up, the most important part is getting everybody to regulate. And so how can we do that? How can we have conversations? Like I try to think of every single thing, Angela, in this book, like there’s a book club guide here. There’s all kinds of ways for people to bring this in. I mean, certainly they can bring me in. But like we’re talking about global impact here. Like where can we get things going? 

But the language and demonstrating how to regulate within a classroom, just like when we have a kid with sensory issues, we start bringing sensory techniques in the classroom. Guess what? Everybody benefits. What can we do in the classroom? Can it be breath? Can it just be breath work that becomes part of the curriculum? We know breath work, hello, it’s free, and it’s the quickest way to pull your body into an autonomic nervous system. 

And I know some of the adults who are here listening might say, oh, I hate breath work or it doesn’t work. Well, I’m going to tell you that if you hate breath work, pretty much guarantee that you are somebody who’s dysregulated and your stress cup is full. And I want people to reframe dysregulation because we often think that what stresses our nervous system always has to be something bad. Your nervous system knows no difference between good and bad stress.

Angela Kelly: That’s interesting.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yep. So we always are coming through our thinking brain. That’s not what happens in the autonomic nervous system. It decides what is perceived as stress, right? So certainly if something bad happens like, you know, you did get hit by a car or God forbid…

Angela Kelly: Like a trauma. Yeah.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Trauma, you know, then yes, it’s going to feel awful. But when it comes to filling up your stress cup, those things just fill up. So I got to the bus, but I had to run there. Okay, that’s a stressor. I had to study for a test. I got an A, that’s a stressor. I studied for a test and I got a D, that’s a stressor. It just keeps going, going. What I think we’re doing in our modern society, we are not doing the things to regulate ourselves. We certainly don’t have downtime, and I don’t want to blame technology, but technology is part of this problem. There’s no powering down, and the nervous system needs you to power down in order to regulate. There has to be moments of calm. 

And yes, would be great to take breaks from technology, but there also are other ways, right, including breath work and somatic and different exercises and all these different things. We need to pull the hum of this crisis down. And you know, what every school can do to bring parents in as part of this conversation through the PTA, through partnering with religious institutions, all the ways that they get out information. Schools are the hub of a community. They are the lifeblood, and I know there’s a lot on their plate, but if we keep putting interventions that don’t start with the nervous system, it’s like mopping the floor with a wet mop that we haven’t rung.

Like, it’s moving things around, but. And so when I would do this work, every year, Angela, in the summertime, I would get a lot of extra kids, you know, kids that were really struggling. And so every September, I would get the calls, and the parents would go, the school called and wanted to know what medication my kid. And I was like, did you tell them what we did? Did you tell them we regulated the nervous system? And they were like, yes. And, you know, I would have all these regulated kids, like bees, you know, going out. And then there would be teachers that would just call me and bring their own kids in, you know, and stuff because they just couldn’t believe what they were seeing. 

And so that’s the power of regulation, but it doesn’t happen in isolation. We can’t just regulate a child and expect a child to go back home. However, we can make their brain more available for learning and processing at the school day. I’m not a Pollyanna here. You have educators leading schools in every facet of America, inner city components, you know, places where there’s food deserts, you know, places where there has been trauma at the schools. 

And I’ve worked, you know, as a former provider, I was one of nine approved providers for Sandy Hook. I worked with 9/11 survivors. I understand trauma. What did I do every single time when I had a trauma victim, regardless of what the trauma was, regardless of the age, is I regulated their nervous system. I didn’t do anything else until they were regulated enough to do some kind of therapy because we know, again, the brain isn’t going to process that.

So that’s part of why we’re in such a stuck place because this is that missing ingredient in the sauce that makes the beautiful sauce. Like, you go to somebody’s house and you’re like, where did, what’s that sauce? What’s that? And you try to give somebody the recipe and they’re just not doing it right. This is the part that makes everything else work better.

Angela Kelly: That’s beautiful. And I want to reiterate what Rosanne just said, which was kids are not available for therapy, aka, they’re also not available for learning if they’re dysregulated. That’s true with adults, it’s true with students. So bringing in regulation techniques, one, it’s a win-win, win for teacher, win for students, and that helps learning. So that’s one thing I think we want to really drive home here. Children don’t have to be labeled or they don’t have to be even medically labeled or labeled academically as having some kind of a learning disability or a behavior disability, some kind of a disability in order to then provide these techniques. They are free and available to everyone. 

And when you learn them, all students can access them to the level at which they need them. You mentioned something about medication. Now, many, many IEPs have I sat in, and many times teachers would come in and say, we’ve tried everything, we need to bring up the topic of medication. These kids need to be medicated, right? Not every teacher, but some teachers. What would your response be to somebody who wants to push the medication before they’ve tried the regulation techniques that you’re suggesting in your book?

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah, well, first of all, under federal law, we’re not allowed to suggest medication. We can only suggest, yes, so we can only suggest that they visit their physician or go to a psychiatrist. And even that is controversial because then a parent can come back to you and ask for the district to pay for that. FYI, that’s the law.

Angela Kelly: Yes. 

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Right? 

Angela Kelly: Definitely, as a school leader, I know this. Many teachers don’t know this, and maybe new school leaders, if you’re listening, make sure you’re seeking legal counsel before recommending any kind of outside services for a student.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah. And from what I understand, it’s okay to say, you know, do you have a pediatrician and say, you know, here are the concerns or give them this rating scale, you can and go and talk to them about it. But pediatricians, oh my God, their plate is full. I mean, they’re dealing with everything and they don’t even have a basic course in nutrition, pediatricians. Like, I think that’s shocking to most people. They’re just starting to teach what food does to the body to doctors in modern training.

So what will a pediatrician do is their training is medication. They don’t necessarily know. What I found about physicians, and I my some of my best friends are physicians. I mean, I hang out with a lot of physicians. What I found in my personal experience, and I could say this for a lot of things, right? Teachers are seeing everything. So their knowledge is incredible, right? School leaders, they’re so incredible. But pediatricians, they want to please the parent. They’re not learning about all of these things unless they’re seeing a patient come back and getting better or they have their own personal experience. 

At any given time, about one third of all my patients were medical people from pharmacists, a lot of pharmacists, different medical doctors. I have a pediatrician right now. As I’m ending my clinical care, just ending out my last few clients. That always spoke to me, and they would always come to me and be like, why do I not know this stuff? And I’m like, you know it now. And, you know, here’s training. So your training and experience determine what you’re going to recommend. 

And so when I started, I right out of the gate had complex cases. I never saw anybody who had just simple issues and whatnot, occasionally here and there. So I realized real quick that psychiatric medication and talk therapy was not working for my clients. You know, everything from a very heavy neurodivergent population, but pretty layered mental health issues in there on top of that as well. And so I went to the microfiche in the 90s, right.

Angela Kelly: Yes.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Just in case you’re too young, my leaders, it means I went to the belly of the basement and looked on film to find research. And in the first hour, I found, I learned about like vitamin D and food and the impact of these things on your brain. And I was like, holy cow. The great part is I was still in graduate school and I went to my professors and they were like, oh yeah, this stuff’s valid. And I was like, why are we not teaching a whole class on this? 

Anyway, but I always believed that every child could get better. If I had a family that was willing to do the work, right, not perfectly, but to do enough of the work, I saw that people got better. I saw that we actually created generational change. I mean, it’s pretty incredible. But we have to, when a teacher is recommending things, why can’t we give knowledge to parents and say, because the great part about nervous system information is there’s nothing judgmental. It doesn’t factor in your color. It doesn’t factor in what your life experiences are. It just says, wait, here are some behaviors that reflect under stimulation. Here are behaviors that reflect over stimulation. 

And guess what? Here are three or four or five really simple ways to regulate. And what I do in all of my work is I’m really trying to get people to commit to it. So I made it like truly stupid simple, Angela, to do this. Like, it does not matter what you’re bringing to the table. If you’re willing to take micro moments, a few minutes, multiple times throughout the day, you will experience regulation. And then to keep it going, right, I have an action plan, all these other things because what I saw is that I always quote my dad, Tony. My dad, Tony always says, it’s easy with the mouth.

Angela Kelly: Right.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: So it means we can say things, but do we actually do things? And so in this world of information overload, I mean, just absolute information overload. I love me AI, but AI is not going to cut it. You got to do. So I wanted to make it where there was no excuse. And the way I look at nervous system regulation is we need to treat this now as just like brushing our teeth. We brush our teeth to prevent cavities, abscesses, serious infections. We have to do the same thing about nervous system regulation. And, you know, the great part about nervous system regulation, again, easy, free things that you could be doing multiple times a day. 

But the more you do it, the more your nervous system will just start doing it on its own. So the more you regulate, the more your nervous system will want to regulate and do it automatically. And the reverse is, the more you dysregulate, the more your nervous system will automatically go to a dysregulated state. Now, it doesn’t matter how dysregulated you are. You can pull that back. You just have to actually believe it and you have to do some work around it. You can’t just, you know, as I always say, magic wand it.

Angela Kelly: Yes. In the classroom, there are systems we put into place. We teach kids where to put their backpacks when they come in. For the littles, it was like we teach them their name so they know which cubby is theirs, and we teach them how to get a pencil and what to do if they break a pencil and how to get a new pencil and we have all these little systems in place that make the day flow, the operation flow. We have those kinds of systems. 

And when we are doing that, it is to make the day easier for you, for me, for us, right? And this regulation can also be done as like just daily operations in your classroom. This is how it should look and feel on a regular basis. Here’s what to do when you’re dysregulated. Here’s what to do if you’re, you know, you and your friend have a conflict. You’re teaching the regulation skills just like you would teach any other system in your classroom.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Absolutely. And when you’re doing it, right, so there’s two parts to, you know, regulation and coping and managing, you know, things. When you’re regulating in moments of calm, it deepens the calm. It’s easier. It takes that stress out, and you’re creating capacity. And you need capacity for the second part of this when bad things happen, when you have a conflict with a friend, when you’re being excluded. You need to have capacity to think through, problem solve, pull out skills. 

A lot of times, you know, you’ll hear, you know, the kids that get identified, kids that get a 504, kids that get pulled for intervention. You’ll always hear the school social worker, teacher, the person doing the intervention say, well, they know it in the room, right? And they don’t know it out there. And it’s because we’re teaching skills, but we’re not teaching anybody how to regulate. So they go back into the classroom, they dysregulate, the frontal lobes go offline, and they lose the skill. You have to have that ability. 

And I think all of us could think about a time where you’re maxed out and then you’re like, oh, I just can’t do one more thing. But we are adults. Most of us say, hey, like, can we table this till tomorrow? When somebody says that, it’s because they’re done. But kids are learning and they need us to be the leaders in regulation. So if that teacher is leading the classroom, that administrator coming in and is saying, you know, like, hey, who did a love pause today? 

That’s my way of, I have this thing called the three-second love pause. And all it is give yourself three seconds. You pause, you breathe, or you do some type of regulation activity and three, then you respond. If we all took three seconds before we responded, when we’re irritated or a cup is full, we would have a lot less conflict in the world. 

Angela Kelly: Yeah. I agree.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: You know, right? But if we create this environment where this is put in, we all get a reciprocal benefit. The loudest nervous system, right, the nervous system that’s the most regulated, the most nervous system that’s the actually the one that’s the most dysregulated, they start pulling the room. But when you become that calm, this calm starts regulating the dysregulated kid without saying a word. 

And that’s where I think we need this. I really praise the boots on the ground in the classroom because they have a tremendous amount on their plate. And I don’t want to ever hear that we’re getting better at diagnosing. That is bologna and cheese. We have a lot more kids with a lot more issues, end of story. And it has nothing to do with diagnostics.

Angela Kelly: Mhm, that’s so fascinating. 

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah, and I can tell you that. I mean, I’ve been there for 30 years. And you’re also seeing a lot more complexity in the issues. Since the pandemic, you know, yes, I always had complex issues, but now, since the pandemic, it’s just layer upon layer. And people really, I don’t know if some kids and some families never fully recovered from that pandemic time. And we’ve certainly gone further into device usage, which again is not the devil, but it needs moderation, it needs boundaries in advance, and nobody’s talking, I mean, I have a whole chapter on that. 

But we need to be better at helping us all manage it, including myself. I mean, I’m do things all the time to keep my device away from me because it just is too convenient. It fits in your hand and it’s just too accessible. So we have to start from within. We have to implement things that anybody can do. And that’s what things like breath work and somatics, they’re simple, small things that are absolutely part of the daily schedule. And I know teachers, I’ve been there, they’ll say, well, I already have a lot of things in my schedule. 

Well, what this is designed to do is to free up all the reminders you’re doing, constantly bringing a kid back on task, constantly managing behavior, because again, a dysregulated kid, he can look like a kid with ADHD, he can look like a kid who’s violent. It’s his nervous system’s response to stressors that might seem invisible to you.

Angela Kelly: It can also be your A plus student who’s super quiet in the back of the room but is so internally stressed and worried about like not getting the A, and they don’t speak up. They could totally be in fight or flight, but you don’t register it because it’s not a very explosive expression of dysregulation.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah. I mean, those are our internalizers, right? Those are those kids that are understimulated. And those kids I see more and more because we use grades as a benchmark for mental health. And I’m not saying educators do, but I’m saying that as a society, we do say, okay, well, they’re an A student, how could they be suicidal? Or they’re an A student, how could they have severe OCD? These are real conversations that I’ve had with…

Angela Kelly: I believe you, 100%.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: And we wait for the crash and burn, and those perfectionistic kids, I really don’t believe, and trust me, I practice this. I really don’t believe every kid should be in all honors classes. It’s just not necessary. I’m sorry. It’s not. Not everybody’s going to Yale and Harvard people. And I get it if that’s your ticket out because financially a kid needs to get a scholarship. Okay, I understand. I’m not naive. But we have all kinds of kids just, oh, burning the candles at both ends. There is a physiological limit. Now, on the other hand, as somebody who constantly is doing things all day to regulate themselves, I have a capacity to actually do a lot more than another an average person. 

So not only do I handle stress well, I can handle problems right in the moment better than 90% of people I know, even my people I love. Regulating first isn’t just a concept, it’s really something that we can take action on and bring to the table. It’s not getting rid of SEL curriculum. Heck no. What I’m saying is that’s going to get absorbed. You’re going to actually get better outcomes. We get better grades. Every school has to have certain standards. And so it starts bringing equity and accessibility regardless of what kind of district you have, regardless of what your students have at home, it helps makes the curriculum much more accessible, all curriculum, not just academic.

Angela Kelly: Beautiful. I love this conversation. I just want to close out by reminding everybody that when you regulate your nervous system, you actually create more bandwidth. So for us busy school leaders whose plates are full and overflowing, when you learn to self-regulate, you actually expand your capacity to do more because you’re able to regulate and keep going. Same will be true for teachers and same will be true for students. 

So this work, this self-regulation, learning these skills, having teachers teach this in their classrooms, and then teaching students how to do it, that is going to expand your entire, you know, school’s capacity to, I want to say more productive, but not in a way that’s from stress and pressure and force, it’s from a capacity building standpoint. Would you say?

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah, oh, absolutely. You’re just going to have more capacity for so many things in your life, having patience for others, grace for yourself, because I think we’re all so overloaded. Teachers are predominantly women. Women have a lot on their shoulders. I’m not saying dads don’t either. My husband’s amazing. But we are now just so maxed out. 

And I think we think that, what I want to say is little micro moments are like putting money in your 401k, and it starts building and building and building, and we have to do this. You can’t just wait for the running on the weekend or a massage every two weeks. That’s not cutting it. You need to start bringing this into your daily life multiple times a day, and it’s easy, easy, easy, easy. This is not going to be something that’s riding on your shoulders. You’re going to start doing it automatically because it just creates capacity on a personal and professional level. Educators will be better human beings.

Angela Kelly: Wonderful. What a great way to kick off this new school year. Rosanne, thank you for your time. Thank you for being on this podcast. I’m so happy to see you. I’m so glad to hear you’re doing well and the book is now launching and I want to get this into the hands of all school leaders. I think it’s so important. I teach it at the school leadership level. You’re teaching it at the parental and, you know, teacher level, student level, and just thank you for being so willing to share your expertise, your wisdom, and knowledge with us today.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Well, thank you for this conversation.

Angela Kelly: It’s been so fun. Let’s do it again.

Dr. Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Absolutely.

Angela Kelly: All right, take care. That’s it, folks. We’ve got to wrap up. She’s got another appointment and I’ve got to run. So have a beautiful week. Please let us know how this impacted you, how it inspired you, and how it’s setting you up for success in your upcoming school year. Have a wonderful week. Talk to you soon. Take care. Bye.

Thanks for listening to this episode of The Empowered Principal® Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more, please visit AngelaKellyCoaching.com where you can sign up for weekly updates and learn more about the tools that will help you become an emotionally fit school leader.

 

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