Ep #163: Mental and Emotional Resilience Starts Here with Ben Pugh

Hello, empowered principals. Welcome to episode 163.

Welcome to The Empowered Principal Podcast. A not-so-typical educational resource that will teach you how to gain control of your career and get emotionally fit to lead your school and your life with joy by refining your most powerful tool, your mind. Here’s your host, certified life coach, Angela Kelly Robeck.

Angela: Well, happy Tuesday and hello my empowered school leaders. Welcome to the podcast and I have a very special treat for you today. So as I mentioned last week, we’re going to focus this month on mental and emotional wellbeing. We’re really going to be talking about – and what I’m going to share with you today, I have a special guest here with you to talk about how life coaching tools can help you on the track to emotional resiliency, emotional wellness.

Because as we know, the school leaders’ mental and emotional wellbeing is the first step in creating a culture and climate of really healthy and resilient students and staff. So here with me today, I have Ben Pugh. He is a certified life coach of The Life Coach School. Ben has an amazing story. He is also a former principal and worked on an Indian reservation in northern Utah. So I want to welcome Ben to the podcast. Ben, thank you so much for being here today.

Ben: Oh, I’m excited. Thank you for having me. I love what you’re doing and I look back on the time that I was a principal and man, I would have loved to have had these resources to help me get started and understand that I am enough and I can create my own confidence. So yeah, I love this.

One of the things that a lot of people don’t realize about me, they saw me as a principal and they’re like, man, you’ve done such a great job of this school. They don’t know what a knucklehead teenager I was and how much trouble I got into.

And so I love to kind of share my story because what I do is I coach parents and I feel like when parents can understand that hey, your teenager can make mistakes and they will be okay, they can still have a bright future, that’s really empowering not only for the parent but also for the teenager.

And so when I was 13, I had some friends that weren’t the greatest and one of my friends asked me to hold a can of rubber cement. And I knew that he had stolen it, but he told me, “Oh yeah, it’s mine, just hold it for me.” And so I stuck it in my backpack, I held it for him all day long and I just felt sick inside, I was so guilty.

And on the bus ride home, he’s like, “Hey bro, do you have my rubber cement?” So I opened up my backpack, I sneakily passed it to him because I didn’t want to have it, and one of my other friends, he’s like, “Hey, I’ve got a lighter, let’s see what happens when we light that thing on fire.”

Now, I do want to tell you, fortunately we were on the end of the bus ride home, all the good kids were sitting in the front of the bus and us knuckleheads were in the back doing our knuckle-headed thing. So no one got hurt. But we lit this can of rubber cement on fire and I don’t know if any of you guys have worked with rubber cement and lit it on fire, but it goes up fast. It was just in flames.

We tried to put the lid on, we couldn’t get the lid on straight and so we tried to throw it out the bus window. And rather than making it out of the window, we hit the itty-bitty bar that separates windows and it sent flaming rubber cement all over the back of the bus. I got a hole burned in my pants, my friend got a hole burned in his shoes, and we had to earn several thousand dollars to reupholster the back of the bus.

Now, most of the adults in my life told me that my life was ruined. They were like, you’ll never be able to be a teacher. You’ll never be able to – I’m a member of the church of Jesus Christ, I wanted to serve a mission, and they’re like, yeah, you won’t be able to do that, we don’t send arsonists out among the world.

Angela: Quite the label for a 13-year-old, right?

Ben: I know. I’m like, oh man, I really – and my mom told me and she still cringes when I tell this part of the story, but oh well. She’s like, “All the kids that I know who had ever been suspended when I was in school are either dead or in jail.” And so I felt like I had ruined my life. I remember going to one of my best friend’s houses to play and the mom met me at the door and she’s like, “Sorry, you can’t play here. We don’t want you to burn out house down.”

And this one event, I felt like it was like my scarlet letter, like I had to carry it around forever. And so as a teenager, I went ahead and I sunk down to everyone’s expectations and I got suspended a handful of times. I was a knucklehead because that’s what people expected.

And one of my favorite stories to tell, I went to a principal conference and we were all talking and doing stuff and this short gentleman who looked vaguely familiar came and caught up to me afterwards and he’s like, “Is your mom your mom?” And I was like, “Yeah, that’s my mom. How do you know?” He’s like, “I was your teacher back way then, I can’t believe you’re a principal. How did you do that?”

So it’s really helpful when we help our teenagers understand, hey, you know what, your mistakes do not determine your future. And when we can drop all the shame and all of the adult judgments that we have, we can really help our teenagers use their struggles, their “mistakes” for their benefit.

And that I believe is where the power of mental and emotional work, like doing your own self-coaching will help you as an educational leader really come from a place where you drop your judgements about the kids that you’re working with, and you see what’s possible rather than oh man, this kid’s a pain in my butt, I wonder how many times they’ll be in the office. No, you just get really curious, you do your own mental and emotional work so that you can see, oh yeah, he’s struggling with this right now, but man, his future is so bright.

Angela: Gosh, that is a story on many levels because as school leaders and as educators, there are things that we say to kids well-intentioned. We think that we’re motivating them when we say, “Hey, don’t do this, it’s going to ruin your life,” or, “Don’t take that path,” or, “Do take this path,” as if we know what’s best for that kid.

And what you’re saying is those comments and those statements that were reiterated over and over to you actually did the opposite. It actually put you on a path of more suspension and more shenanigans and more struggle as a student really.

Ben: Yeah. And I remember one point specifically as a principal, I was suspending a kid, which we did very little of. As a former student who’s been suspended, any of you principals listening, I want to invite you guys, don’t suspend kids. You don’t have to. There are other ways.

We got really creative on how to beat the needs of our students. And there was one student, he had gotten caught smoking weed in the bathroom and I had his parents in my office and they were just cussing him out. I was worried I’d have to call child protective services to protect this child from his parents.

And they’re just yelling, “You’ve ruined your life,” all of this stuff. And thankfully, I had done my own mental and emotional work around my childhood and my mistakes. And to be able to tell the parents, “Hey, time out. He has not ruined his life. Here’s my story.” And it was so awesome when the dad looked over at his kid and was like, “Well at least he didn’t light the school bus on fire.” Instantly changed their perspective of this situation. And now they were empowered, the teenager was empowered, and they all realized, oh, this isn’t the end of the world. Now, how do we build on this?

Angela: Exactly. So you just mentioned that you were the school leader in that scenario, so you went from being the kid who started the bus on fire to a principal. So you have to tell the story of how you got from arsonist to school leader.

Ben: Yeah. So I believed the stories that everyone told about me. I graduated high school with like, a 2.0, I don’t know, just enough so I could play sports. And I really didn’t think that I was education material. And so I was building houses with my dad. While I was on the mission that I talked about, my grandma saved up money to help me go to school.

So I went to school and was like I’m interested in education. But I still had this nagging belief, like, no one’s going to let me in the door because I let a school bus on fire. And I was building houses with my dad and we were building the house of the principal at the school on the Ute Indian reservation.

And he had seen me coaching football, I’d volunteer and coach at the local high schools. He was like, “Man, you are great with kids. And we need more amazing people. Would you come be a substitute teacher?” And I was like, maybe. And then thankfully, that big housing crisis of 2008 happened and building houses dried up overnight.

And so I called up this principal and I was like, “Hey, could I please come sub for you?” And so I subbed for about a year and a half. And I got back into school, I was studying to be an English teacher. And we’re on the Ute Indian reservation. Nobody wants to come work there. And so he’s like, hey, we need a math teacher.

I was like, I hate math, I suck at math, but I guess I can do it. So I’d go home and do all the homework the week before I had to teach. It was rough. And I was still going to school as a college student, which by the way, really helped me be a better educator.

All my friends are like, man, I learn this stuff and then I had to wait three years before I could use it. I’d learn it and I’m like, I’m going to try this out tomorrow, I’ll let y’all know how it goes next week. So I got into education and I loved it. I thought I’d try one year at a more traditional public school and it just wasn’t for me.

I’m kind of a free spirit, I like to do things my own way. And just all the hoops and all the rules, I felt like we weren’t really meeting students’ needs. And the school on the Ute Indian reservation, they had just had a new principal who only lasted one year and was like, I’m out. And they couldn’t find anyone, and I was like, hey, I’ve been a teacher for three years now, I think I could be a principal.

And so I threw my name in and really, I was the only person who was not crazy. Maybe I was crazy, but I wasn’t as crazy as the other people. And they gave me the job. And it was just amazing to – I loved the principal that I worked with and he had taken the school so far. And I was like, here’s what needs to happen next.

So had this clear vision and I knew what my strengths were and I just hopped in and went to work. And so I was a principal there for five years. When I took over, graduation was in the mid-50% range, and my last three years we hit 88% three years in a row. They went from 200 suspensions and that’s with only 40 to 50 students that were in and out, in and out.

And we got a waiting list and my last year, I think we had maybe 10 suspensions. And those are out of school that we had to because our school was small and we had to get them out. And we just alternated who was out in the end. So that’s how I went from arsonist. Didn’t light anything else on fire, guys. I’m not an arsonist.

Angela: No. Just a terrible label to call a kid at that age. But it stuck with you. The impact of that label stuck with you and that’s what I’m pointing out is just we label kids without thinking about the long-term impact on that. But what a story this is and what an amazing journey you’ve been on. Now, this was an alternate high school, correct?

Ben: Yes.

Angela: Okay. So an alternate high school on an Indian reservation. I’m going to say, I’m going to venture to say that most new principals who are looking for a job, that is not on their top three list of schools to land, right? Because they think it’s so hard. They think that would be really hard to do.

Number one, an Indian reservation with a different set of cultures, different set of expectations. But then to sign up for an alternate school environment, I’m fascinated by that because most people wouldn’t even touch that with a 10-foot pole. And I’m wondering what your mindset – what thoughts did you have and what emotional state were you in to be able to say yeah, I’ve been teaching three years, I’m ready to take on the school leadership role? What was it about the way that you thought in your mindset that made that from a possibility into a reality for you?

Ben: Yeah. So part of it, I found The Life Coach School Podcast. That’s Brooke Castillo for those of you listening. We’re both certified through The Life Coach School. And that really helped me start thinking from a place of what is possible.

I was thinking about being done with education. My first five years I was at sub, and then the math teacher, and then an English teacher. And that last year in a traditional public school, I hated it. Like, they’re like, okay guys, we’re going to do standardized testing, you all have to get on the same page.

And so the other English teachers in our department were like, we’re going to test on vocabulary, it’s the easiest. And I’m like, no, that’s the least important thing we’re teaching these kids. So I was really burnt out when it came to education. I liked playing to my own set of rules. So the school where I was a principal of, they were an alternative school and a charter school.

So basically, I was the whole district. I was a superintendent, I was everything. I don’t know that I’d recommend that being your first job. I built my staff up really quick and I empowered them and they just thrived. I was half the man, they were the other half. They picked up all the slack.

And so really, I think part of it was me, I had experience with this school and I saw what I felt like they needed. And we talked the other day, I felt like they needed connection. We have these students that, they’re on the Ute Indian reservation, they disliked white people and they would tell us that.

And they disliked authority. They hated cops. And my thought was, man, I think I can go help change this. I had some ideas, I wanted to go river rafting with our students and the tribal police force, I kind of showed the police force, hey, these guys, even though they’re thugs, they’re still human beings. And show my students that hey, even though these guys are cops, they’re still human beings.

So really having a clear vision of what I thought was important and knowing the model really helped. Like oh, here’s the result that I want, here’s the action I need to take, here’s the feeling. Just working backwards and believing in myself when nobody else did. Even my favorite principal, when I called him and I was like, hey, I’m thinking of taking this job, he was like, “No, run the other way, it’s awful. It’ll chew you up and spit you out.” And knowing, oh, I believe I can do this, I’m going to just make it work.

Angela: I love this story because a lot of people who listen to this podcast in particular are aspiring leaders or new leaders. And two things happen. They have all of this desire to make real change happen in a school, and then what typically happens is they’re taught this specific way, basically follow the rules and just maintain status quo.

So they get into the position with all of these desires and dreams, and then the reality of the job kind of sucks them under. And here they are, talking about test scores and standardized testing and getting the scores up and the gap, the myth of behind and the gap and all of a sudden you’re sucked in and you’re buying into the continual, perpetual story of who’s ahead, who’s behind, that test scores matter, that more language arts and math minutes are what’s going to create better students. And you didn’t have any of that.

Ben: Yeah. I was very unique. Working on the Ute Indian tribe really helped. Any time the state tried to kind of overstep or flex their muscles, the tribe was pretty good at fighting back and saying no, we’re a sovereign nation. You’re not in charge of us. The race card would get thrown out sometimes and all of a sudden the state would just step back. So that was beneficial.

But one of the things that really helped put things in perspective, my last year of teaching, the one year in the public school, we would do this little talent show on Fridays. And I had this student, he was in gangs, he was just a knucklehead, reminded me a lot of me. Had a bad reputation.

And he was like, “Hey, could I get extra credit if I played the saxophone for the talent show day.” I was like, “Yeah, of course. Come show off.” And he came in, played the saxophone, and I was shocked that a 13-year-old kid could play that well. And he was like, “Yeah, it’s the one thing that I love.”

And the very next week the principal, we’re meeting about this kid and he’s like, “Yeah, we’re going to take him out of band, we’re going to take him out of this, we’re going to make him do extra math and extra English.” And I got in a fight with my principal. Luckily, we had coached football together so I had a good relationship, and I was like, “No, we cannot take this away from this kid.”

And I remember telling the principal, he is never going to make money with math or reading. But if he can go sit on the street, open up his case and play the saxophone, he is that good. People will pay him money. And just really sticking up for what the student needed, rather than what the adults thought that the student needed.

And so when I became the principal, that was heavy on my mind. And here in Utah, we have – I can’t remember what they called it. Like an exit survey or something. They call your students the year after they graduated and then three, then five or something. We had scored zero. The state called and they’re like, none of your students have jobs, none of them are living on their own, none of them are going to college. How are you going to fix this?

And the state’s answer was show us where you’re spending money on math and reading and all this other stuff. And we’re like, no, we are spending money on building relationships with our students. And so we would go do fun things. We’d go on trips at the end of the school year, we’d go kayaking and we have this lake up high in the mountains and we’d go cliff jumping.

And it was so much fun, all of a sudden, our students changed. They wanted to be in school. They wanted to make their teachers proud. They would do work and they’d come show me in my office, or they’d – once we build those relationships, it changed everything.

And I’ll tell you, taking care of my own mental and emotional health and doing my own coaching made that a possibility. Because the first time we tried and we’re like, hey, here’s what we’re doing, state, they said, no, you can’t do that. You have to show us how you’re going to increase math and reading and it has to include math and reading and all this stuff.

And I was like, no, we’ve seen the data. We’ve tried everything you’ve told us to and our data stays the same. We’re trying this new thing. And finding the resources that I had available, for me, it was unique. We had the Ute Indian tribe. I promise you, all of you leaders out there, if you look, those resources are out there.

You have parents that will go to bat for you. You have local leaders, local businesses who want to support you. And we just found where our support was and we shared our vision with them and people were lining up to help us accomplish our vision.

Angela: I think that is so powerful – and I know public school leaders right now are listening to this story and they’re saying, “Well, he had it easier because he had different parameters and we could never do that in a public school.” And we’re not suggesting that you get your kinders on a bus and go jump off of cliffs. We’re not saying that.

But what we are saying is that there – and I really believe this. Even in a public school, which I taught for 25 years, there is more wiggle room than you think. And if you can build relationship, you can stay on campus and build relationship. It doesn’t have to be kayaking in the mountains. It can be on your school campus.

But when you spend your time and energy building that community and that relationship and those connections with kids, it does make the difference. And once that makes a difference, your test scores will show that. And then you’re going to have to have the mental and emotional resiliency to get from starting off and shifting people’s mindset. But once that takes momentum, test scores do follow.

Ben: Yeah. And I would add, let data be your friend. I’m not the smartest dude around. Data always intimidated me. But I got tired of people using data against us. And so everything we did, when it came to building relationships, there’s another time where we changed our grading system from academics, we’re like, kids aren’t coming to school, we’re going to give a grade for just being here. That’ll be part of their grade.

Our kids aren’t respecting other people, that’s why they lose jobs and get fired. We’re going to give part of the grade for their behavior. It was identifying what the kids needed and then keeping track of data. And the state was like, yeah, but you can’t do this, you can’t do this. And we’re like, but look at our data. We have all these graduates that are working. They’re going to a tech school, they’re doing this.

And any time the state was – basically they were scared that we were doing it outside of the norm. And any time they got scared, I’d just send them our data and be like, no, it’s working, look. And at the end of the day, I think – I’m in Utah. I don’t know how other states are.

But ultimately, we all still want kids to succeed. And when you can show, hey, here’s how we’re working towards that goal and here’s the evidence that it is working, states will get out of your way a little bit more and be like, okay yeah, keep doing that. All of a sudden, they’d ask me to come speak at charter school events and say how we’re doing certain things.

But let data be your friend, and anything that you’re trying to do that’s a little bit out there, make a bold proposal and say here’s what we’re trying to achieve, here’s how I’m going to track the data, and trust your gut. You know what your students need better than administrators that are so far withdrawn that they’re not connected anymore. So trust your gut and that’s kind of the first step in being that leader. Identifying a problem and then solving it and having the data to back it up.

Angela: And using the coaching tools to help you navigate that emotional fear, those doubts and fears that come up, that’s really where the model comes in from The Life Coach School. So for those of you listeners, I call it the STEAR cycle, it’s really the model. I just named it a different acronym so that you would grab onto it because we love acronyms in education.

So the model is just the premise that your thoughts trigger your emotions, your emotions impact the way you think and feel and the decisions you make, the actions you take, and the approach that you take to school leadership, which ultimately obviously creates your results. So thoughts create results is the premise of the model and both Ben and I have been trained in these tools.

And what Ben is saying is that he – it’s one thing to know what your kids need and come up with a plan, but then you’ve got to navigate the conversations and feel that fear that comes with going outside of the box and doing something different and staying true to what you know that will get kids more engaged, will get kids more involved, and will actually impact their life in a way that benefits them for the long haul, versus getting a score on a math test or something like that.

So Ben, did you use the model just with yourself or did you teach it to the kids? How did you implement the coaching tools you learned at The Life Coach School to propel you further into your career?

Ben: So I would teach it to my staff and they didn’t really care. And I’d teach it to some of my students and they didn’t really care. I used it in my own life. What you were just talking about, to me, it just boiled down to here’s how I want to show up, here’s the emotions that are keeping me from doing that.

And being intentional about my thoughts and beliefs so that I showed up intentionally as the person I wanted to be. And that is when it really started to take off. Teachers would come and approach me, and the interesting thing is I was younger than all of them and they had seen me before when I was the substitute in the math and then the English teacher.

When they were like, how did you become this person? How did you do that? That’s when I could be like, oh yeah, I just do this. And they’re like, oh, it’s that model thing you taught us about? Being the change that you want to see in other people is more important than trying to get other people to change.

Once you can be that person, you can be that shining example, then some people are like, oh yeah, I want to know, what are you doing? And I would even have students – I had one student, she had suffered sexual abuse and a ton of horrific things in her past. And she was like, how did you turn your suffering, your trials into successes?

And I taught her about man, when I was a kid, I believed that it meant that there was something wrong with me. And now that I’ve shifted my mindset and I’m like, man, this is my unfair advantage, this is a thing that I have that nobody else has. She was like, oh, that’s a different perspective.

And so now, rather than looking at this abuse that she had suffered as something bad that shouldn’t have happened and she’s a victim, now she’s like oh, this empowers me. And before she graduated, she was starting to travel and speak at other schools and be like, hey, here’s how you take bad things in your life and you grow from them and you build your foundation from being on rock bottom.

It just – showing up and being that example intentionally will do more to empower the people around you than you realize. So that’s why I always tell – I work with parents who want me to fix their teenagers and I’m always like no, start with you. Be the change that you want to be because it will have a bigger impact than you realize.

Angela: Boom. Mic drop. Principals, it starts with you. It starts with you. Mental and emotional resiliency, fitness, wellbeing, all of the above, it starts with you. And if you can learn the strategies yourself and you can fully implement them, you will just be the example to your staff and your students of what’s possible and they are going to notice this change in you and then they’re going to say, hey, what are you doing? What’s happening with you that’s making you show up in this way?

And that is where the ripple effect takes place. You don’t have to have your teachers go to another professional development or bring in another SEL curriculum program to enhance your students’ social and emotional wellbeing. You need to just start with yourself and it takes off from there.

And I couldn’t have a better example on the podcast than Ben because he’s lived it. He’s not just speaking about it. He’s living it, and he continues to live it to this day. So Ben, tell the listeners what you do now and how you help families. And where can people go for more information about what you do?

Ben: Yeah, so I am a parenting and teen coach. I help parents reconnect with their teenagers; I help them build rock solid relationships so that they can now turn struggles into strengths. And when I work with teenagers, we really work on resilience. We work on kind of our own mental narratives around our struggles and we identify, oh, this is someone else’s narrative, this is someone else’s belief. And then we’re intentional about what we believe about ourselves.

So I work – about half my clients are parents, the other half are teenagers. To be honest, most parents come to me wanting me to fix their teenagers. And it’s kind of a frank conversation that we have to have, and I say we can’t control your teenager. I guarantee you; you have more power over yourself than you do your teen.

But several times, parents have said, “Okay, my teen doesn’t want coaching, but I want coaching.” And usually within a month, now the teenager wants coaching because he’s seen how mom or how dad has changed. And I just can’t stress enough the power of you utilizing these tools.

It’s natural as human beings to think, oh, if they were different or if they were different, no. It’s always on you. You get to control how you think and how you feel. So you can learn more about me on my website, benpughcoaching.com. And the best way to work with me, get a hold of me would be to hop on a free consultation with me.

You can do that at benpughcoaching.com/mini. I’m passionate about helping parents and teenagers. And so I offer one-on-one coaching for parents and teens, but I also offer group coaching for parents and group coaching for teens.

If you have a teenager in your life that you think needs help, if you have a parent in your life that you think could use these tools, send them to that free consultation and that will be the best place because I can be like, oh yeah, my group is more affordable, it would be an awesome place to start.

But other times, I’m like, man, let’s start one on one. We can change this in a week. You’ll be feeling so much better within a week. So that free consultation, benpughcoaching.com/mini. That’s probably the best place for you to really know here’s what I want to do, here’s where I want to go.

And I do offer a podcast. It’s completely free. It is called Impact: Parenting with Perspective. And on that podcast, we talk all about what you can do as a parent to connect with your teenager and keep things in perspective so that you’re empowered as a parent.

Angela: Such fabulous work, Ben Pugh. We’re going to put his links in the show notes below and what I want to highlight about Ben’s work is that he can be an excellent resource for the families in your community. So he works specifically with middle and high school students, particularly high school students who are struggling.

So kids who’ve been kicked out or suspended or expelled or they are in an alternate school program setting, these are kids who have thoughts that are really discouraging them from being engaged and active learners in their communities. And Ben can turn life around for those parents and those students in a heartbeat. So please look up Ben Pugh for resources for your families…

Ben: Benpughcoaching.com.

Angela: Oh, benpughcoaching.com. I just wanted to highlight how we spelled your last name. It’s Pugh, correct? Okay, so we got that clear. But just know that his specialty is working with kids with challenges. So please keep him on your radar for any students and families who are struggling, especially with mental and emotional wellbeing. That is his forte, his wheelhouse. He can help out in a heartbeat. And if you personally have a student at home that you’re challenged with, Ben can give you a hand.

So Ben, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate your story, being so open and authentic about where you started and how you turned that – what we would call a negative situation, an impactful problem, into an impactful solution for not just for you, but for tons of students and families on that Indian reservation and everybody that you’re working with now. I can’t imagine the impact you’re going to continue to have as you reach and expand your coaching practice. So, so glad you were here today. Thanks so much for your time.

Ben: Yeah, thank you for having me. Thank you for offering this resource to principals. You’re amazing. I look forward to following you and collaborating with you in the future.

Angela: Yeah, we will definitely be doing that. Hey, for you listeners out there, if anybody knows about Clubhouse, it’s this new platform app thing, we are just getting on it this week and trying to figure it all out. So be looking for Ben and I and our friend Joey. We’re going to try to have some conversations on Clubhouse in the coming weeks. It’s going to be a blast. So we hope to see you there. Have an empowered week, we’ll talk to you next week. Take care. Bye-bye.

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